Mormonism

[TheLastSparten OCS]

To keep the other thread that we originally started with on topic I created this one. Now we will be on topic.

If any one else wishes to join in, please do.

[The Deacon OCS]

(I am going to copy my previous posts here from http://o-c-s.us/index.php?topic=271.0 )


I understand why the Last Sparten is saying what he is because his background lies in the LDS Church. Sparten, I mean no disrespect to you personally but we are theologically so very far apart. In fact, I have a very close friend of mine that is a fervent member of the LDS church in Utah. I pray for his salvation daily.

If you study the LDS teachings carefully, you will find the following theology (just hitting a couple of major points here) that is vastly different from the teaching of the Old and New Testaments:

1. God is an exalted "physical man"
2. Jesus is the Spirit child of God the Father who had a physical sexual union with Mary
3. Mormonism rejects the Trinity
4. Salvation is achieved through works. All will be saved except a few sons of perdition
5. Salvation is possible even after death
6. Hell is not eternal but a temporal purgatory
7. Man has the capacity to evolve into godhood
8. Good works cancel the penalty of sin
9. They refer to the Second Coming of "the god" Joseph Smith (Journal of Discourses 7:289; 5:19
10. Whereever the Bible disagrees with the book of mormon, the Bible is considered incorrect

These are just but a few things where mormonism and the LDS church stray from the teachings of the Bible.

I have studied this issue at length because of my close friends association with that church but I am by no means an expert on the issue.


I am a student of history, philosophy and theology. I want this to stay on a non-personal basis as it is not my intent to disrespect you but rather to challenge you to consider the info I am putting forth. So, I will primarily use examples from your churches own writings. As in many cases, people fail to conduct an in depth study of what they believe in including not only "all" the theological data but also any supporting historical data.

Also, if you place all your faith in a religion that you believe in, you should really learn how to spell "mormon". And yes, I have purposely chosen not to capitilize the name of the church.

Your church may not overtly say it is waiting for the second coming of Joseph Smith but the mormon writings support that they are. I have even quoted this from one of your "many" mormon books.

It is the position of the LDS Church that the book of mormon is another testament of Christ. It is not the position of Christians.

When God spoke through men to put the Bible to writing it was there to be read for all to see.

The LDS church projects the book of mormon as the primary theological book they believe in. But they say little about the various other books that the LDS church follows that conflict with both the book of mormon and the Bible. One must keep everything in context and read all the books together that forms everything a religion professes and its people believes in. For instance Islam primarily uses the Quoran but also uses the Bible and other books to a lessor degree and many conflict with each other.

John Smith allegedly found some gold tablets and was given some rose colored glasses in order to read the tablets. No one could translate the tablets except Smith which were the basis for the book of mormon and the mormon church. So if we are to believe in mormonism we must trust the translation of some tablets by an faliable man. Sorry, I do not put my trust in any man, just in God and Christ. Smith was known to perform ritualistic magic amd was involved in using peep stones to receive psychic information.

Good works don't cancel the penalty of sin, repentance does.

My point exactly. This is the position of the mormon church, however, Christians believe that the Grace of Jesus Christ is the only thing that can forgive your sins not any works. Christ shed His blood so that we might have eternal life. But we must also accept Christ as our personal saviour. Mormonism believes that "repentance" incorporates "works"

Smith was a known diviner and the Bible preaches against those engaged in divination.

Many prophecies announced by Smith never came true including those that he said would come true in his own lifetime.

Other LDS prophecies did not come true such as the prophecy that Brigham Young would become President of the United States

In studing the teachings of the various books of the mormon church they are really polytheistic and not monotheistic. Anotherwords they believe and are open to many gods. There are men who are accepted to have evolved into godhood. This is where mormon followers become really uncomfortable with that challenge.

But lets look at Joseph Smith's own words: "In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods;and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and the people in it." (Doctrines of the Gospel; page 16).

Or, the creation account found in mormon scripture in the Pearl of Great Price: At the beginning....the Gods (plural) organized and formed the heavens and the earth....

Joseph Smith said this about Christian pastors: "they are of their father the devil....."

In 1 Nephi, chapters 13, 14 and elsewhere the book of mormon calls the Christian Church "a church which is most abominable above all other churches"..."it is founded by the devil" and etc.

I could go on if you would like....

[The Deacon OCS]

Mormonism also references that Satan and Jesus were brothers. The LDS publication "Gospel Principles", a straightforward presentation of Mormon doctrine, says this directly in chapter 3, pp. 17 and 18:
Our Father said, "Whom shall I send?" Two of our brothers offered to help. Our oldest brother, Jesus Christ, who was then called Jehovah, said, "Here am I, send me." ... Satan, who was called Lucifer, also came, saying, "Behold, her am I, send me..." ...After hearing both sons speak, Heavenly Father said, "I will send the first."


Here is another major point of the theological difference between Christinaity and Mormons:
The nature of the Mormon Jesus is vastly different from that of the biblical Jesus. They are not minor differences. According to LDS theology, Jesus is a created being, distinct and separate from God the Father. He is the spirit brother of Lucifer. Even the importance of what He came to do--die on the cross for the complete remission of sins of all who put their faith in Him--is diminished by LDS theology (D&C 18:11-12, for instance). These are hardly small points of contention; these are fundamental, core issues about who Jesus Christ really is, and what He came to do. The biblical picture of Jesus Christ is that He is God--not of God, not a god, but God. The rejection of something so foundational clearly places Mormonism outside of biblical Christianity.

[TheLastSparten OCS]

It may take me a little while to come up with a suitable counter-post, because I'll have to wright it all down before I put on.

I am not usually challenged to stick up for my religion like this; I think it will be a great learning experience for me. While being fun.

So, in a way I guess I have to thank you Deacon. Maybe we can both learn a little something. Who knows? (That's a retorical question.)

[Navy CW4]

There are a lot of things I can say on this issue, however, I will only quote what D.L. Moody said to a Mormon on a train ride from Chicago to Salt Lake: You keep telling me what I must to do, but the Bible reads it's already done.

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."  Romans 11:6

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."  Ephesians 2:8-9

"O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."  Galatians 3

"So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."  Romans 8:8

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."  John 1:1-3

Therefore, proving that Jesus and satan are not brothers.

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."  2 Peter 1:20-21

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."  Galatians 1:6-9

"Answers to my Mormon Friends," by Thomas F. Heinze

[Etchglow]

While I do not normally post, mostly as to prevent myself from making a fool of myself, I find several of the things said in this thread to warrant posting.  Also, while I am not a Mormon I do know several people of this faith. 

4. Salvation is achieved through works. All will be saved except a few sons of perdition
5. Salvation is possible even after death
8. Good works cancel the penalty of sin

I have singled these arguments out of your post Deacon not out of animosity or anything like that, however, I did it because I feel that, as a Christian, we can hold these against the Mormon faith.  Why do I believe this way?  To hold these against any faith would be hypocritical of us in the fact that during the 1500's the Catholic Church practiced these.  A commonly held belief in the Catholic Church during the 1500's was that one had to do good works go gain the grace of God in order to ascend into heaven and not be condemned to purgatory.  This was such a common belief during this period of time, according to many different scholars, that the Catholic Church (at the order of the pope, some say this was to raise money)  practiced "indulgences." This was the believe that there was excess grace in this world and that the Pope could distribute the excess grace to help ensure that people did not end up in purgatory.  I'm pretty sure, I do not have the document in front of me, that a man named Johann Tetzel was sent by the Pope in 1517 to Germany to sell these "indulgences."  I have also read several accounts of him selling these to the families of the recently deceased on behalf of the deceased.  In fact, this was one of the main reasons Martin Luther broke off from the Catholic Church. 

While I do not approve of the teachings of The Book of Mormon and I have tried to keep this as non-argumentative as possible.  However, I do believe that we should be respectful in our dealings with people who may or may not share our beliefs.  Here I believe the old adage about catching more flies with honey than vinegar holds true.

Etchglow OCS

P.s. I don't want to fuel another war over the versions of the bible; however, I would like to point out that there are approximately 5000 manuscripts of the New Testament alone and among those 5000 manuscripts there are approximately 300,000 variations on reading due to the fact that we do not have the original manuscripts of the books.

[Mouko OCS]

I don't think it's so much of pointing out people's flaws as pointing out the teachings of a religion.  They either line up wth scripture, or they don't.  Even within particular "denominations" of Christianity, there are teachings that don't line up with scripture. 

These particular 3 things are core to Christianity.  There are many things in scripture that, while important, do not determine the salvation of a person.  These points are directly related to salvation, which points to our ultimate destiny. 

I'm not sure how that is hypocritical as the Bible teaches one way to God by grace through faith in Christ...of which works have no part in determining...they are the result...and also that not all will be saved.

[Etchglow]

Oi, I used the H word there (hypocritical), and I agree that their teachings are not within what we as Christians define as true.  I was just pointing out that in history the Catholic Church practiced some of the things which have been noted as how the Mormon faith differs from our Christian faith.

Etchglow OCS

p.s. sorry for using the H word 

[The Deacon OCS]

No prob Etchy. Looks like you know your history and that makes you no ones fool. You should post more.

The history and writings of the mormon church are what I am using for my arguments.

The Pope and Catholic leadership at the time use the indulgences as a way to gather money for their greed. And yes, it was a hypocrasy as indulgences and the ideas behind it were not Scriptural. Also, remember that at this time the Catholic bible was in Latin and a majority of Catholics could not read their native language let alone Latin. Books, the few that there were, were handcopied. Their leadership was lying to them and they did not know it because they could not read the Bible.

The "H" word in Christianity applies to individuals (not the Bible) who are not following the teachings found in the Bible. They are using the Bible to justify their "own" means.

[Mouko OCS]

Sorry for using the "H" word...lol...why?  Sorry if I sounded a little defensive with my post. 

I agree with Deacon too Etchy, you should post more as you obviously know your history...your input can be most helpful and will be appreciated.  Thanks for the information guys.

[TheLastSparten OCS]

I have yet to finish my counter post to Deacon's post, but I have a question for you.

What is faith without work? One just can't have faith in something because one says they do. That one must study and ponder to gain that faith.

You guys make it seem like faith is something easily acquired.

[The Deacon OCS]

I have yet to finish my counter post to Deacon's post, but I have a question for you.

What is faith without work? One just can't have faith in something because one says they do. That one must study and ponder to gain that faith.

You guys make it seem like faith is something easily acquired.

No rush Spartan

Faith is not easily acquired or the whole world would be bowing down right now before the Father and Christ. And yet, according to the Bible, when one dies, whether a believer or not, they will confess that Christ is Lord and will bow their knee to him. At that point, for those who finally realize Christ is Lord, it will be too late for them and they will go to "eternal" torment. But the mormon church preaches that one can "work" their way out of hell which is contrary to the teachings of the Bible

"What is faith without works?" It depends on your point of view, the difference is subtle but worlds apart from each other.

A mormon is taught that works are "the way" to salvation.

For a Christian, Jesus is "the way" to salvation. Our faith is shown by good works

This will be a long post because this is a very in-depth subject by which many are confused. So I will post some Scripture and some commentary from Matthew Henry. I have to do this in two posts because of the size of the post


James 2:18-26

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
KJV



James 2:14-26

Faith and works

In this latter part of the chapter, the apostle shows the error of those who rested in a bare profession of the Christian faith, as if that would save them, while the temper of their minds and the tenour of their lives were altogether disagreeable to that holy religion which they professed. To let them see, therefore, what a wretched foundation they built their hopes upon, it is here proved at large that a man is justified, not by faith only, but by works. Now,
I. Upon this arises a very great question, namely, how to reconcile Paul and James. Paul, in his epistles to the Romans and Galatians, seems to assert the directly contrary thing to what James here lays down, saying if often, and with a great deal of emphasis, that we are justified by faith only and not by the works of the law. Amicae scripturarum lites, utinam et nostrae-There is a very happy agreement between one part of scripture and another, notwithstanding seeming differences: it were well if the differences among Christians were as easily reconciled. "Nothing," says Mr. Baxter, "but men's misunderstanding the plain drift and sense of Paul's epistles, could make so many take it for a matter of great difficulty to reconcile Paul and James." A general view of those things which are insisted on by the Antinomians may be seen in Mr. Baxter's Paraphrase: and many ways might be mentioned which have been invented among learned men to make the apostles agree; but it may be sufficient only to observe these few things following:-
1. When Paul says that a man is justified by faith, without the deeds of the law (Rom 3:28), he plainly speaks of another sort of work than James does, but not of another sort of faith. Paul speaks of works wrought in obedience to the law of Moses, and before men's embracing the faith of the gospel; and he had to deal with those who valued themselves so highly upon those works that they rejected the gospel (as Rom 10, at the beginning most expressly declares); but James speaks of works done in obedience to the gospel, and as the proper and necessary effects and fruits of sound believing in Christ Jesus. Both are concerned to magnify the faith of the gospel, as that which alone could save us and justify us; but Paul magnifies it by showing the insufficiency of any works of the law before faith, or in opposition to the doctrine of justification by Jesus Christ; James magnifies the same faith, by showing what are the genuine and necessary products and operations of it.
2. Paul not only speaks of different works from those insisted on by James, but he speaks of a quite different use that was made of good works from what is here urged and intended. Paul had to do with those who depended on the merit of their works in the sight of God, and thus he might well make them of no manner of account. James had to do with those who cried up faith, but would not allow works to be used even as evidence; they depended upon a bare profession, as sufficient to justify them; and with these he might well urge the necessity and vast importance of good works. As we must not break one table of the law, by dashing it against the other, so neither must we break in pieces the law and the gospel, by making them clash with one another: those who cry up the gospel so as to set aside the law, and those who cry up the law so as to set aside the gospel, are both in the wrong; for we must take our work before us; there must be both faith in Jesus Christ and good works the fruit of faith.
3. The justification of which Paul speaks is different from that spoken of by James; the one speaks of our persons being justified before God, the other speaks of our faith being justified before men: "Show me thy faith by thy works," says James, "let thy faith be justified in the eyes of those that behold thee by thy works;" but Paul speaks of justification in the sight of God, who justifies those only that believe in Jesus, and purely on account of the redemption that is in him. Thus we see that our persons are justified before God by faith, but our faith is justified before men by works. This is so plainly the scope and design of the apostle James that he is but confirming what Paul, in other places, says of his faith, that it is a laborious faith, and a faith working by love, Gal 5:6; 1 Thess 1:3; Titus 3:8; and many other places.
4. Paul may be understood as speaking of that justification which is inchoate, James of that which is complete; it is by faith only that we are put into a justified state, but then good works come in for the completing of our justification at the last great day; then, Come you children of my Father-for I was hungry, and you gave me meat, etc.
II. Having thus cleared this part of scripture from every thing of a contradiction to other parts of it, let us see what is more particularly to be learnt from this excellent passage of James; we are taught,
1. That faith without works will not profit, and cannot save us. What doth it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? Observe here,
(1.) That faith which does not save will not really profit us; a bare profession may sometimes seem to be profitable, to gain the good opinion of those who are truly good, and it may procure in some cases worldly good things; but what profit will this be, for any to gain the world and to lose their souls? What doth it profit?-Can faith save him? All things should be accounted profitable or unprofitable to us as they tend to forward or hinder the salvation of our souls. And, above all other things, we should take care thus to make account of faith, as that which does not profit, if it do not save, but will aggravate our condemnation and destruction at last.
(2.) For a man to have faith, and to say he has faith, are two different things; the apostle does not say, If a man have faith without works, for that is not a supposable case; the drift of this place of scripture is plainly to show that an opinion, or speculation, or assent, without works, is not faith; but the case is put thus, If a man say he hath faith, etc. Men may boast of that to others, and be conceited of that in themselves, of which they are really destitute.
2. We are taught that, as love or charity is an operative principle, so is faith, and that neither of them would otherwise be good for any thing; and, by trying how it looks for a person to pretend he is very charitable who yet never does any works of charity, you may judge what sense there is in pretending to have faith without the proper and necessary fruits of it: "If a brother or a sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be you warmed and filled, notwithstanding you give them not those things which are needful to the body, what doth it profit? v. 15-17. What will such a charity as this, that consists in bare words, avail either you or the poor? Will you come before God with such empty shows of charity as these? You might as well pretend that your love and charity will stand the test without acts of mercy as think that a profession of faith will bear you out before God without works of piety and obedience. Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone," v. 17. We are too apt to rest in a bare profession of faith, and to think that this will save us; it is a cheap and easy religion to say, "We believe the articles of the Christian faith;" but it is a great delusion to imagine that this is enough to bring us to heaven. Those who argue thus wrong God, and put a cheat upon their own souls; a mock-faith is as hateful as mock-charity, and both show a heart dead to all real godliness. You may as soon take pleasure in a dead body, void of soul, or sense, or action, as God take pleasure in a dead faith, where there are no works.
3. We are taught to compare a faith boasting of itself without works and a faith evidenced by works, by looking on both together, to try how this comparison will work upon our minds. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works. Show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works, v. 18. Suppose a true believer thus pleading with a boasting hypocrite, "Thou makest a profession, and sayest thou hast faith; I make no such boasts, but leave my works to speak for me. Now give any evidence of having the faith thou professest without works if thou canst, and I will soon let thee see how my works flow from faith and are the undoubted evidences of its existence." This is the evidence by which the scriptures all along teach men to judge both of themselves and others. And this is the evidence according to which Christ will proceed at the day of judgment. The dead were judged according to their works, Rev 20:12. How will those be exposed then who boast of that which they cannot evidence, or who go about to evidence their faith by any thing but works of piety and mercy!
4. We are taught to look upon a faith of bare speculation and knowledge as the faith of devils: Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well; the devils also believe, and tremble, v. 19. That instance of faith which the apostle here chooses to mention is the first principle of all religion. "Thou believest that there is a God, against the atheists; and that there is but one God, against the idolaters; thou doest well: so far all is right. But to rest here, and take up a good opinion of thyself, or of thy state towards God, merely on account of thy believing in him, this will render thee miserable: The devils also believe, and tremble. If thou contentest thyself with a bare assent to articles of faith, and some speculations upon them, thus far the devils go. And as their faith and knowledge only serve to excite horror, so in a little time will thine." The word tremble is commonly looked upon as denoting a good effect of faith; but here it may rather be taken as a bad effect, when applied to the faith of devils. They tremble, not out of reverence, but hatred and opposition to that one God on whom they believe. To rehearse that article of our creed, therefore, I believe in God the Father Almighty, will not distinguish us from devils at last, unless we now give up ourselves to God as the gospel directs, and love him, and delight ourselves in him, and serve him, which the devils do not, cannot do.

[The Deacon OCS]

continuation of post above


5. We are taught that he who boasts of faith without works is to be looked upon at present as a foolish condemned person. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? v. 20. The words translated vain man-anthrope kene, are observed to have the same signification with the word Raca, which must never be used to private persons, or as an effect of anger (Matt 5:22), but may be used as here, to denote a just detestation of such a sort of men as are empty of good works, and yet boasters of their faith. And it plainly declares them fools and abjects in the sight of God. Faith without works is said to be dead, not only as void of all those operations which are the proofs of spiritual life, but as unavailable to eternal life: such believers as rest in a bare profession of faith are dead while they live.
6. We are taught that a justifying faith cannot be without works, from two examples, Abraham and Rahab.
(1.) The first instance is that of Abraham, the father of the faithful, and the prime example of justification, to whom the Jews had a special regard (v. 21): Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Paul, on the other hand, says (in ch. 4 of the epistle to the Romans) that Abraham believed, and it was counted to him for righteousness. But these are well reconciled, by observing what is said in Heb 11, which shows that the faith both of Abraham and Rahab was such as to produce those good works of which James speaks, and which are not to be separated from faith as justifying and saving. By what Abraham did, it appeared that he truly believed. Upon this footing, the words of God himself plainly put this matter. Gen 22:16-17, Because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son; therefore in blessing I will bless thee. Thus the faith of Abraham was a working faith (v. 22), it wrought with his works, and by works was made perfect. And by this means you come to the true sense of that scripture which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness, v. 23. And thus he became the friend of God. Faith, producing such works, endeared him to the divine Being, and advanced him to very peculiar favours and intimacies with God. It is a great honour done to Abraham that he is called and counted the friend of God. You see then (v. 24) how that by works a man is justified (comes into such a state of favour and friendship with God), and not by faith only; not by a bare opinion, or profession, or believing without obeying, but by having such a faith as is productive of good works. Now besides the explication of this passage and example, as thus illustrating and supporting the argument James is upon, many other useful lessons may be learned by us from what is here said concerning Abraham.
[1.] Those who would have Abraham's blessings must be careful to copy after his faith: to boast of being Abraham's seed will not avail any, if they do not believe as he did.
[2.] Those works which evidence true faith must to works of self-denial, and such as God himself commands (as Abraham's offering up his son, his only son, was), and not such works as are pleasing to flesh and blood and may serve our interest, or are the mere fruits of our own imagination and devising.
[3.] What we piously purpose and sincerely resolve to do for God is accepted as if actually performed. Thus Abraham is regarded as offering up his son, though he did not actually proceed to make a sacrifice of him. It was a done thing in the mind, and spirit, and resolution of Abraham, and God accepts it as if fully performed and accomplished.
[4.] The actings of faith make it grow perfect, as the truth of faith makes it act.
[5.] Such an acting faith will make others, as well as Abraham, friends of God. Thus Christ says to his disciples, I have called you friends, John 15:15. All transactions between God and the truly believing soul are easy, pleasant, and delightful. There is one will and one heart, and there is a mutual complacency. God rejoiceth over those who truly believe, to do them good; and they delight themselves in him.
(2.) The second example of faith's justifying itself and us with and by works is Rahab: Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? v. 25. The former instance was of one renowned for his faith all his life long, This is of one noted for sin, whose faith was meaner and of a much lower degree; so that the strongest faith will not do, nor the meanest be allowed to go without works. Some say that the word here rendered harlot was the proper name of Rahab. Others tell us that it signifies no more than a hostess, or one who keeps a public house, with whom therefore the spies lodged. But it is very probable that her character was infamous; and such an instance is mentioned to show that faith will save the worst, when evidenced by proper works; and it will not save the best without such works as God requires. This Rahab believed the report she had heard of God's powerful presence with Israel; but that which proved her faith sincere was, that, to the hazard of her life, she received the messengers, and sent them out another way. Observe here,
[1.] The wonderful power of faith in transforming and changing sinners.
[2.] The regard which an operative faith meets with from God, to obtain his mercy and favour.
[3.] Where great sins are pardoned, there must prefer the honour of God and the good of his people before the preservation of her own country. Her former acquaintance must be discarded, her former course of life entirely abandoned, and she must give signal proof and evidence of this before she can be in a justified state; and even after she is justified, yet her former character must be remembered; not so much to her dishonour as to glorify the rich grace and mercy of God. Though justified, she is called Rahab the harlot.
7. And now, upon the whole matter, the apostle draws this conclusion, As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also, v. 26. These words are read differently; some reading them, As the body without the breath is dead, so is faith without works: and then they show that works are the companions of faith, as breathing is of life. Others read them, As the body without the soul is dead, so faith without works is dead also: and then they show that as the body has no action, nor beauty, but becomes a loathsome carcass, when the soul is gone, so a bare profession without works is useless, yea, loathsome and offensive. Let us then take head of running into extremes in this case. For,
(1.) The best works, without faith, are dead; they want their root and principle. It is by faith that any thing we do is really good, as done with an eye to God, in obedience to him, and so as to aim principally at his acceptance.
(2.) The most plausible profession of faith, without works, is dead: as the root is dead when it produces nothing green, nothing of fruit. Faith is the root, good works are the fruits, and we must see to it that we have both. We must not think that either, without the other, will justify and save us. This is the grace of God wherein we stand, and we should stand to it.

[Ticker OCS]

I have one response to this whole topic... John 3:16

[Cortath OCS]

I have one response to this whole topic... John 3:16

Amen!

[TheLastSparten OCS]

Just to clearify are we all in the KIng James Version of the Bible?

[The Deacon OCS]

Just to clearify are we all in the KIng James Version of the Bible?

That is the primary translation most of us use.

[LionOfJudah OCS]

king james is what i go by.

[Navy CW4]

I don't think it's so much of pointing out people's flaws as pointing out the teachings of a religion.  They either line up wth scripture, or they don't.  Even within particular "denominations" of Christianity, there are teachings that don't line up with scripture. 

These particular 3 things are core to Christianity.  There are many things in scripture that, while important, do not determine the salvation of a person.  These points are directly related to salvation, which points to our ultimate destiny. 

I'm not sure how that is hypocritical as the Bible teaches one way to God by grace through faith in Christ...of which works have no part in determining...they are the result...and also that not all will be saved.

Mouko hit the bullseye.  The issue is not about people, it's about the flaws of religion.

[Navy CW4]

Just to clearify are we all in the KIng James Version of the Bible?

TheLastSparten, I don't quote from anything but AV1611

[TheLastSparten OCS]

AV1611?

[Ticker OCS]

AV1611 (AV=Authorized Version) 1611 (The Year it was originally published). Later to become known as the Kings James Version. 

[TheLastSparten OCS]

Thanks Ticker

[TheLastSparten OCS]

Deacon,  I know from what I have read from your posts that if I were to engage in this challenge that I, in a way, started and most definitely encouraged I would not be able to convince you that my church is wholeheartedly Christian as Christianity encompasses any and all of those that believe in Jesus Christ. Or that the Bible, having been translated so many times, is sometimes incorrect. While the Book of Mormon has only been translated once by a man called of God. And that this man as well recreated the church that was set up by Jesus Christ himself.

I also believe that if you would just read our works without the mind set of anti-mormonism and ponder and pray about what you have just read, I fervently believe that you will recognize the truth in them and why we do things they way we do.

I easily understand why you think the things you do about the church I attend and believe in. If you could just get past that mental block you have erected to guard and twist the words from our works that you had read, you would get so much out of it.

No matter what you write or say, I will always know my church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, is the true church and that the priesthood that was on this Earth when Jesus Christ was here on Earth has been restored. I know that Joseph Smith was the first true prophet of the latter days and that only his successors hold the authority to use all of the keys of the Priesthood. I also know that Joseph Smith saw both Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, two distinct personages, when he went to ask which church he should join. And I sustain and believe that Thomas S. Monson is a prophet, a seer, and a revelator and has the full authority of the Godhead to run the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

I have written these things in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

[The Deacon OCS]

This is about the same response I get when your local missionaries come to my door.

You have not shown me where I have twisted the words of your books. I have simply quoted from them.

I am not anti-mormon against the mormon people themselves. As I have said, one of my closest friends is a mormon who now resides in Utah. If I was anti-mormon, I would not waste my time with him. I consider him closer than a brother and I will continue to pray for him.

The Bible was written by 40 men inspired by God over a period of about 2,000 of years. And yet, no one has been able to find a place where the Bible conflicts with itself or is in error. The prophecies that have come true to date is incredible. The mathmatics of both is incalcuable. In fact, Blaise Pascal proved based on mathmatics alone the Bible was true.

We are not against you Spartan and have placed you on our OCS prayer list.

[PureKnight OCS]

I had to find information but... two things I want to point out...

1) Mormon believed that we have three heavens awaiting for us. Depending on our work and deed will determine which heaven I will enter. That was misinterpreter of the book of 1 Cor, I believe... Paul wrote third heaven. He dont meant there is three heavens but rather to describe the heaven where God resident in. First heaven is the day (sky, cloud, sun, etc...) then second heaven is the night (star, moon, etc...) then there is third heaven where God is there and that is where we will went.

2) Mormon do this ritual... they believe only righteous peopleand proven worthy elders can enter this nice temple to worship and feel Lord's presence while others have to "earn" the way to enjoy this prilvilege.In book of Hebrew reveals that Jesus' death torned the veil down so that EVERYBODY can enjoy this access and privilege. Everybody can come to Jesus and enjoy the presence of worship and to be filled with Holy Spirit.

You see... I am not against Mormon and like Deacon, I do have friends of Mormon and they start to come to understanding the conflict between Bible and the book of Mormon. I know you said Mormon is not consider as Bible but rather to add. If Bible does not support or in agreement with this teaching then sorry to say but it is false teaching. I pray you will read Bible and see what we are talking about. God bless you.

Meanwhile, I AM SOOOO GLAD you are here. You challenge us especially me. I need that. Also, I DO see your hunger and thirst to pleased our good Lord Jesus Christ. I have no doubt. I absolutely have no doubt. God bless you, sir.

[Mouko OCS]

Sparten, at this point all I can really ask of you is to take the Bible and compare the truth to what you are taught from the book of mormon.  The Bible is the only and final authority.  If you look at it with the same open mind you urge us to use, you will see there are major differences in all the wrong places, and that the truth is found in the Word, not in the mormon teachings.  ANYTHING or teaching that does not match up 100% with the Word is not from God and will lead you to hell.  Just remember, no matter how strongly you believe in something, no matter how glorious it sounds, no matter how much it may lead to change in your life, can still lead you straight to hell when it's a lie.  God has ONE plan for salvation, found in His Word...all else is the broad road and wide gate that many will follow (Matthew 7:13).

As Deacon has said, we do not find ourselves against mormon folks themselves, we are against anything not of the gospel that will lead people astray.  We will be praying for you.

[TheLastSparten OCS]

As of right now, I am studying the Bible. I have been doing so since that start of my school year. It's for a seminary class I am taking to prepare me for my mission. And yes I do study it with an open mind like I urge you to do. When I read, I read in context. I also make sure I recieve the full meaning of what I read. And if I have a question, I ask about it. And I have read in the Bible, itself, evidence that Jesus Christ, Heavenly Father (God), and the Holy Ghost are 3 seperate beings. If they are not then who is Jesus praying to in the Garden of Gethsemane (sorry if it is spelled wrong)?

[Mouko OCS]

Several points to be made here, and for lack of time they will not be presented as well as I'd like.  I'll get back to it tonight when I can get home from work and explain.  But, the Bible makes it clear that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are in fact ONE.

John 1:1-14 is one of the best passages, to me, in relating the reality of the Father and Jesus Christ being one in the same and giving us a clearer “picture.”  John refers to Jesus here as the Word.  “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”  Reading in context, we see as we read clearly whom John is referring to...Christ.

Deuteronomy 6:4, Matthew 28:19 (God is ONE)  John 10:30,33,38; 14:9,23, 17:21,22 (Father and Son are ONE) John 14:16,18; (Holy Spirit)  Acts 5:3,4;  1 Corinthians 12:4-6,13

Phillipians 2:10,11  "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

If God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit were not one, then God would then have violated His own law in Exodus by the verses just mentioned...which we know He can not do.

Exodus 20:3-5   "You shall have no other gods before Me.  "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.  "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

I don't normally do this, BUT, I think it applicable here.  John MacArthur wrote on this subject briefly and I think he also brings out some good points.  I'll post it next.

[Mouko OCS]

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Articles/9962

The Trinity is an unfathomable, and yet unmistakable doctrine in Scripture. As Jonathan Edwards noted, after studying the topic extensively, “I think [the doctrine of the Trinity] to be the highest and deepest of all Divine mysteries” (An Unpublished Treatise on the Trinity).

Yet, though the fullness of the Trinity is far beyond human comprehension, it is unquestionably how God has revealed Himself in Scripture—as one God eternally existing in three Persons.

This is not to suggest, of course, that the Bible presents three different gods (cf. Deut. 6:4). Rather, God is three Persons in one essence; the Divine essence subsists wholly and indivisibly, simultaneously and eternally, in the three members of the one Godhead—the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (We considered the deity of Christ last Thursday, in this post .)

The Scriptures are clear that these three Persons together are one and only one God (Deut. 6:4). John 10:30 and 33 explain that the Father and the Son are one. First Corinthians 3:16 shows that the Father and the Spirit are one. Romans 8:9 makes clear that the Son and the Spirit are one. And John 14:16, 18, and 23 demonstrate that the Father, Son, and Spirit are one.

Yet, in exhibiting the unity between the members of the Trinity, the Word of God in no way denies the simultaneous existence and distinctiveness of each of the three Persons of the Godhead. In other words, the Bible makes it clear that God is one God (not three), but that the one God is a Trinity of Persons.

In the Old Testament, the Bible implies the idea of the Trinity in several ways. The title Elohim (”God”), for instance, is a plural noun which can suggest multiplicity (cf. Gen. 1:26). This corresponds to the fact that the plural pronoun (”us”) is sometimes used of God (Gen. 1:26; Isa. 6:8.). More directly, there are places in which God’s name is applied to more than one Person in the same text (Ps. 110:1; cf. Gen. 19:24). And there are also passages where all three divine Persons are seen at work (Is. 48:16; 61:1).

The New Testament builds significantly on these truths, revealing them more explicitly. The baptismal formula of Matthew 28:19 designates all three Persons of the Trinity: “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.” In his apostolic benediction to the Corinthians, Paul underscored this same reality. He wrote, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God [the Father], and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all” (2 Cor. 13:14). Other New Testament passages also spell out the glorious truth of the Triune God (Romans 15:16, 30; 2 Cor. 1:21–22; Eph. 2:18).

In describing the Trinity, the New Testament clearly distinguishes three Persons who are all simultaneously active. They are not merely modes or manifestations of the same person (as Oneness theology incorrectly asserts) who sometimes acts as Father, sometimes as Son, and sometimes as Spirit. At Christ’s baptism, all three Persons were simultaneously active (Matt. 3:16–17), with the Son being baptized, the Spirit descending, and the Father speaking from Heaven. Jesus Himself prayed to the Father (cf. Matt. 6:9), taught that His will was distinct from His Father’s (Matt. 26:39), promised that He would ask the Father to send the Spirit (John 14:16), and asked the Father to glorify Him (John 17:5). These actions would not make sense unless the Father and the Son were two distinct Persons. Elsewhere in the New Testament, the Holy Spirit intercedes before the Father on behalf of believers (Rom. 8:26), as does the Son, who is our Advocate (1 John 2:1). Again, the distinctness of each Person is in view.

The Bible is clear. There is only one God, yet He exists, and always has existed, as a Trinity of Persons—the Father, the Son, and the Spirit (cf. John 1:1, 2). To deny or misunderstand the Trinity is to deny or misunderstand the very nature of God Himself.

Today’s article was adapted from John’s commentary on 1-3 John.

[Ticker OCS]

To make this easier to understand. When Jesus was praying, his flesh was praying to his spirit. Because God is a  spirit,
John 4:24 "God is  spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth" and his spirit had to come down and dwell in flesh 1Tim 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:God WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH,justified in the spirit,seen of angels,preached unto the Gentiles,believed on in the world,received up in glory." in order to fulfill the word. And just to clarify before you say it. "NO Jesus was not praying in the sense that he "Didn't want to die for us" He knew what he had to do, we all cry out at times, just as Jesus did here. John 10:30 "I and my father are one" 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father,the Word,and the Holy Ghost: these three are ONE" Hope that helps

[Mouko OCS]

Thanks Ticker. I was at work and stayed a bit after to check the forums.  Well, I realized after I'd left to go home that I had not gone back to the question.

As you said, Jesus knew what He had to do.  It is good to think of this not in terms of His fear of the crucifixion itself, but, of what deeper pain lay ahead...and not fear, but extreme sorrow.  The word used to describe what Jesus felt was the strongest of the 3 Greek words used to describe depression in the New Testament.  His agony and sorrow here reflected what He knew was coming, not simply in the scourging, beatings, mockings, nails...but in the"cup" of God's unhindered wrath poured out on Him.

Matthew Henry had this to say:

Observe,
I. The place where he underwent this mighty agony; it was in a place called Gethsemane. The name signifies, torculus olei-an olive-mill, a press for olives, like a wine-press, where they trod the olives, Mic. 6:15. And this was the proper place for such a thing, at the foot of the mount of Olives. There our Lord Jesus began his passion; there it pleased the Lord to bruise him, and crush him, that fresh oil might flow to all believers from him, that we might partake of the root and fatness of that good Olive. There he trod the wine-press of his Father's wrath, and trod it alone.

As for Jesus praying to the Father...one point I brought up in a different topic I believe also applies here.  Jesus, while on earth and in the form of man, lived the ultimate example for us.  He lived a perfect and sinless life.  We are to follow His example.  He showed us the kind of relationship also that we can have with the Father as well. 

John 11:42 shows us an example of Jesus praying just prior to raising Lazarus from the dead.

John 11:42  And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

Matthew Henry again puts it well...

But why should Christ give this public intimation of his obtaining this miracle by prayer? He adds, It is because of the people who stand by, that they may believe that thou hast sent me; for prayer may preach. 1. It was to obviate the objections of his enemies, and their reflections. It was blasphemously suggested by the Pharisees, and their creatures, that he wrought his miracles by compact with the devil; now, to evidence the contrary, he openly made his address to God, using prayers, and not charms, not peeping and muttering as those did that used familiar spirits (Isa. 8:19), but, with elevated eyes and voice professing his communication with Heaven, and dependence on Heaven. 2. It was to corroborate the faith of those that were well inclined to him: That they may believe that thou hast sent me, not to destroy men's lives, but to save them. Moses, to show that God sent him, made the earth open and swallow men up (Num. 16:31); Elijah, to show that God sent him, made fire come from heaven and devour men; for the law was a dispensation of terror and death but Christ proves his mission by raising to life one that was dead.

[Trauma Triage]

Wow that was a lot of awesome information to read through. I only wanted to comment on a couple of things that I noticed while reading through these posts, oh The Last Spartan, Hi I'm Trauma, just wanted to be polite, anyways, 1st You asked earlier about faith, and it takes work and how it seems so easily gained by most Christians, all I can say is faith is something that you work for/ earn/ fall for/ everything man. Faith for me is tested all the time. Faith is a undieing commitment to your higher power, through anything and everything I stay committed to God. I have had people make fun of me for my religion and yet I stay loyal. No matter what happens to a man/woman of faith, remains true. But then again, alot come's with faith, Satan constantly wants you to lose faith, he will show you every way possible to look away from God. God teaches us lessons, sometimes he takes a break from us, does not leave us though, but lets us experience some major discomfort. Every time he has done that to me, I hear Him saying, "When are you going to let go Mike, when are you going to stop trying to controll everything, when are you going to stop disobeying Me, and let Me help you, "hence the phrase let go and let God." 

2nd part, you said earlier believe in God, there is no believing, there is only knowing God. Satan Believes in God, he knows His power, so it would be really dumb of Satan not to believe in God. When you Know God that is the undenyable truth, you know whats true. Belief leaves room for error, the possibly in being wrong, such as "I believe thats right." It's possible that it's wrong.

3rd God, Christ, and The Holy Ghost are not three different entities, they are a whole. The Holy Trinity is unending, One through the other through the other. You cannot have one without the rest. Because I am Scottish I love to include this in topics like this:

"A symbol of the Holy Trinity is the triquetra (often, triqueta) is a tripartate symbol composed of three interlocked vesica pisces, marking the intersection of three circles. It is most commonly a symbol of the Holy Trinity (Father, son, Holy spirit) used by the Celtic Christian Church, sometimes stylized as three interlaced fishThe triqueta symbol predates Christianity and was likely a Celtic symbol of the Goddess, and in the North, a symbol of the god Odin. Although it is often asserted that the triquetra is a symbol of a tripartite goddess, no such goddess has been identified with the symbol. Similar symbols do occur in some Norse and Celtic goddess imagery, but most likely represents the divisions of the animal kingdom and the three domains of earth mentioned above. Triplicities were common symbols in Celtic myth and legend, one of the possible reasons Christian beliefs were so easily adopted by the Celtic people." (about.com)

"The triqueta makes an ideal Christian symbol. It is a perfect representation of the concept of "three in one" in Christian trinity beliefs, and incorporates another popular Christian symbol, the fish, in its original form of the vesica pisces. It is sometimes enclosed within a circle to emphasize the unity aspect.In Wiccan and Neopagan belief, the triqueta symbolizes the triple aspected goddess (maid, mother, and crone). Some Christians have protested this "appropriation" of the symbol...however, ironically enough, the original Christian fish symbol was derived from an early symbol of venus, one representing female generative organs- making the triquetra perfectly appropriate symbol for a Goddess revival. The triquetra is also considered to represnt the triplicities of mind, body, and soul, as well as the three domains of earth according to Celtic legend- earth, sea, and sky. " (about.com)

"The triquetra also appears on the television series Charmed, probably as a less threatening alternative to the pentacle (the preferred emblem of witches real and imaginary). In the show, it represents the "power of three, acting as one " which in turn represents the three sisters." (about.com)

"Evangelical tract writers and conspiracy theorists like to label the triquetra a 'satanic' symbol, claiming it is a 'stylized' 666, an allusion to the 'number of the beast' in the Book of Revelation. This, however, is simply wishful thinking. The triquetra of interlaced fishes is one of the very earliest of Christian symbols, predating the crucifix by hundreds of years. The purported 'satanic' meaning of the symbol is a modern evangelical interpolation."(about.com)

Works Cited
http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefstriqueta.htm

[The Deacon OCS]

Here is a website that you can go to with more information on why mormonism conflicts with the Bible. There are a few videos to watch as well. The website is full of information on this issue

http://www.lhvm.org/index.htm

Here is one of many videos you can watch to explain the differences. http://www.lhvm.org/vid_bible_med.htm

[TheLastSparten OCS]

In Jesus' time there where 12 apostles, now there are 12 apostles. In Jesus' time there where prophets seers and revelators (however you spell that), now there is one Prophet, seer, and revelator. His name is Thomas S. Monson. There is now only one and not many because there is need for only one. The Keys of the Priesthood are back on Earth. The Church is finally back to the way it was during Jesus' time here on Earth. Hence the name The Church of JESUS CHRIST of LATTER-DAY Saints. The LDS Church was founded purely on the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Church he created during his time.

ALL OF THIS CAN BE FOUND IN THE BIBLE!!!!!

This can also be found in the Book of Mormon, though it only depicts what happens in the Americas, the SAME things happened. He appointed 12 apostles to lead the Church in the Americas, Jesus gave them the necessary keys to run the Church.

The Apostles in the old world (Europe, Middle East, Asia) saw that the people of that day where becoming corrupt and with it the Church, because of that the keys where never passed on, but died with the apostles.

In the Americas, the Church had it's ups and downs, the people would be faithful then be unfaithful and have cycles. But the Nephites (the faithful and those who held the keys) were doomed to a state of such recession that they were wiped out by there brothers the Lamanites (now called Native Americans, and many other things in South America, like the Aztecs and so on). This then stopped the keys from being passed along just as effectively as a corrupted church.

And as for the Trinity, since you guys seem to really love that topic, it is possible, but is not real. There is only one God yes, He is the SUPREME BEING. I don't know why people can't seem to wrap their minds around the fact that Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost (Spirit) are three seperate beings. Heavenly Father is not breaking his own laws (You must not have anyother Gods before me), because he is the SUPREME BEING. There are NOT any other God's before him. Jesus Christ is his son, he is not God or Heavenly Father (same person), nor is he the Holy Ghost (Spirit). They are all three seperate personages. Heavenly Father is not breaking any of his own laws. He is a SUPREME BEING, there are not any other God's BEFORE him.

And since Heavenly Father is NOT breaking any of his own laws and is a SUPREME BEING, the LDS Church is monotheistic, not polytheistic. We believe in one God and one God only. He is the master of all.

And with that I'll be signing off as I should have been in bed an hour ago, which may be the reason this may sound like I'm rather agitated.
I'm also very tolerant of other religions. I'm saying this because it may not sound like it with what I have written.
 

[The Deacon OCS]

The LDS Church was founded purely on the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Church he created during his time.

Spartan - Now you are starting to do your homework which makes this much more interesting.

The LDS Church was founded on the teachings of Joseph Smith ie. Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, The Book of Abraham, Journal of Discourse and others. The Bible simply collects dust in the LDS Church. As I have said before, it is well documented by the Mormons that Joseph Smith used ruby colored glasses to interpret the tablets given to him by the angel Moroni. Many of the books written by Smith conflict with each other. As I have indicated before the Genesis account is one such area.

Lets see some major differences below between Christianity and the Mormons. Below are teachings from the various Mormon doctrines. These clearly teach an entirely different theology than the Bible

The truth is, the following is what Mormons are taught.

Atonement
"Jesus paid for all our sins when He suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane," (Laurel Rohlfing, “Sharing Time: The Atonement,” Friend, Mar. 1989, 39.)
"We accept Christ's atonement by repenting of our sins, being baptized, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and obeying all of the commandments," (Gospel Principles, Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1979, pg. 68.)

Baptism
Baptism for the dead, (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. II, p. 141.) This is a practice of baptizing each other in place of non-Mormons who are now dead. Their belief is that in the afterlife, the "newly baptized" person will be able to enter into a higher level of Mormon heaven.

Bible
"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. . ." 8th Article of Faith of the Mormon Church.
"Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God." (1 Nephi 13:28).

Book of Mormon
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, 4:461.)

Devil, the
The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, page 192.)
Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.)
A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god." (Mormon Doctrine, page 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, page 8.)

God
God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321.  Joseph Smith,  Times and Seasons, Vol 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333.)
"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s..." (D&C 130:22).
God is in the form of a man, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3.)
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345
God the Father had a Father, (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 19; Milton Hunter, First Council of the Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105.)
God resides near a star called Kolob, (Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428.)
God had sexual relations with Mary to make the body of Jesus, (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, p. 218, 1857; vol. 8, p. 115.) - This one is disputed among many Mormons and not always 'officially' taught and believed.  Nevertheless, Young, the 2nd prophet of the Mormon church taught it.
"Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).

God, becoming a god
After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354.)
"Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them," (DC 132:20).

God, many gods
There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.)
"And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3)

God, mother goddess
There is a mother god, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443.)
God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.)

God, Trinity
The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35.)

Gospel, the
The true gospel was lost from the earth. Mormonism is its restoration, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 182-185.)
Consists of laws and ordinances: "As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements -- 'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.'" (Articles of Faith p. 79)

Heaven
There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial, Mormon Doctrine, p. 348.

Holy Ghost, the
The Holy Ghost is a male personage, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, (Le Grand Richards, Salt Lake City, 1956, page 118; Journal of Discources, Vol. 5, page 179.)

 Jesus
The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, page 129.)
Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163; Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15.)
Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247, 1856.)
"Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8: p. 115).
"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Mormon Doctrine," by Bruce McConkie, p. 547).
"Christ Not Begotten of Holy Ghost ...Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!" (Doctrines of Salvation, Joseph Fielding Smith, 1954, 1:18).
"Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh ..." (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, God the Father, compiled by Gordon Allred, pg. 150).

Joseph Smith
If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation.  There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670.)

Pre-existence
We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth, (Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, p. 218.)
The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, page 129.)
The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, page 192.)

Prophets
We need prophets today, the same as in the Old Testament, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 444-445.)

Salvation
"One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation." (Miracle of Forgiveness, Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206.)
A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god." (Mormon Doctrine, page 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, page 8.)
Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247, 1856.)
Good works are necessary for salvation, Articles of Faith, p. 92.)
There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188.)
"The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79.)
"As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements -- 'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.'" (Articles of Faith p. 79).
"This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts" (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697). 
"We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do," (2 Nephi 25:23).

Trinity, the
The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35.)
"Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God [anyhow]--three in one and one in three. . .It is curious organization… All are crammed into one God according to sectarianism (Christian faith). It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God--he would be a giant or a monster." (Joseph Smith, Teachings, 372).

Some Mormons may disagree with a few of the points listed on this page, but all of what is stated here is from Mormon authors in good standing of the Mormon church.

[The Deacon OCS]

I guess we should all move to Utah. It's a christian run state .....

From CARM

Is Mormonism Christian?
 
"Is Mormonism Christian?" is a very important question. The answer is equally important and simple.  No. Mormonism is not Christian.
     
If you are a Mormon, please realize that CARM is not trying to attack you, your character, or the sincerity of your belief.  If you are a non-Mormon looking into Mormonism, or if you are a Christian who is simply researching Mormonism, then this paper should be of help to you.
     
The reason Mormonism is not Christian is because it denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity. Of the essential doctrines (that there is only one God, Jesus is God in flesh, forgiveness of sins is by grace alone, and Jesus rose from the dead physically, the gospel being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus), Mormonism denies three of them: how many gods there are, the person of Jesus, and His work of salvation.
     
Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (D. & C. 130:22) and that Jesus is a creation.  It teaches that he was begotten in heaven as one of God’s spirit children (See the Book, Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage, p.8 ).  This is in strict contrast to the biblical teaching that he is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14), eternal (John 1:1, 2, 15), uncreated, yet born on earth (Col. 1:15), and the creator all (John 1:3; Col. 1;16-17). Jesus cannot be both created and not created at the same time. Though Mormonism teaches that Jesus is god in flesh, it teaches that he is "a" god in flesh, one of three gods that comprise the office of the Trinity (Articles of Faith, by Talmage, pp. 35-40). These three gods are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This is in direct contradiction of the biblical doctrine that there is only one God (Isaiah 44:6,8; 45:5).  See Trinity for a correct discussion of what the Trinity is.
     
Because Mormonism denies the biblical truth of who God is, who Jesus is, how forgiveness of sins is attained, and what the gospel is, the Mormon is not Christian -- in spite of all his claims that he is.       

Mormonism teaches

Mormon theology teaches that god is only one of countless gods, that he used to be a man on another planet, that he became a god by following the laws and ordinances of that god on that world, and that he brought one of his wives to this world with whom he produces spirit children who then inhabit human bodies at birth. The first spirit child to be born was Jesus. Second was Satan, and then we all followed.  But, the Bible says that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5), that God has eternally been God (Psalm 90:2) -- which means he was never a man on another planet.  Since the Bible denies the existence of other gods (and goddesses), the idea that Jesus is the product of a god and goddess couple is rejected.  The Bible tells us that Jesus The Jesus of Mormonism is definitely not the same Jesus of the Bible. Therefore, faith in the Mormon Jesus, is faith misplaced because the Mormon Jesus doesn't exist.
     
Mormonism teaches that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross itself (and receiving it by faith) is not sufficient to bring forgiveness of sins. It teaches that the forgiveness of sins is obtained though a cooperative effort with God; that is, we must be good and follow the laws and ordinances of the Mormon church in order to obtain forgiveness. Consider James Talmage, a very important Mormon figure who said, "The sectarian dogma of justification by faith alone has exercised an influence for evil," (Articles, p. 432), and "Hence the justice of the scriptural doctrine that salvation comes to the individual only through obedience," (Articles, p. 81). This contradicts the biblical doctrine of the forgiveness of sins by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; 6:23; Eph. 2:8-9) and the doctrine that works are not part of our salvation but a result of them (Rom. 4:5, James 2:14-18).
     
To further confuse the matter, Mormonism further states that salvation is twofold.  It maintains that salvation is both forgiveness of sins and universal resurrection. So when a Mormon speaks of salvation by grace, he is usually referring to universal resurrection. But the Bible speaks of salvation as the forgiveness of sins, not simple universal resurrection. Where Mormonism states that forgiveness of sins is not by faith alone, the Bible does teaches it is by faith alone. Which is correct? Obviously, it is the Bible.

Mormonism and the Bible

In order to justify its aberrant theology, Mormonism, has undermined the authority and trustworthiness of the Bible.  The 8th article of faith from the Mormon Church states, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly."  This means that when the Bible contradicts Mormonism, the Bible isn't trustworthy.
     
The interesting thing is that Joseph Smith allegedly corrected the Bible in what is called The Inspired Version, though it is not used by the LDS church.  Though they claim they trust the Bible, in reality they do not.  They use Mormon presuppositions to interpret it instead of letting it speak for itself.  For example, where the Bible says there are no other gods in the universe (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8), they interpret it to mean "no other gods of this world" - which is not what those verses say.  They do not trust the Bible and they often state that the Bible is not translated correctly. 

Conclusion

Why is Mormonism a non Christian religion? It is not Christian because it denies that there is only one God, denies the true Gospel, adds works to salvation, denies that Jesus is the uncreated creator, distorts the biblical teaching of the atonement, and undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible.
     
CARM does not deny that Mormons are good people, that they worship "a" god, that they share common words with Christians, that they help their people, and that they do many good things.  But that isn't what makes someone Christian.  Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23, " Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" (NKJV). Becoming a Christian does not mean belonging to a church, doing good things, or simply believing in God. Being a Christian means that you have trusted in the true God for salvation, in the True Jesus -- not the brother of the devil, not the god of Mormonism, not the gospel of Mormonism.  Mormonism is false and cannot save anyone.

[Mouko OCS]

Thanks for the information Deacon.  This last post deals with what I was about to post, but you put it far better with that post than I would have...simply that Mormonism is NOT Christian due to the fact it denies who the Bible teaches Jesus is and what He has done to secure salvation to those who believe and trust in Him alone for their salvation.  Based on that ONE thing, it can not honestly be called Christian.  Then there are the other things denied about the nature of God. 

As others have said, and I will also say, this is NOT an attack on Mormons themselves...but on it's teachings.

In Jesus' time there where 12 apostles, now there are 12 apostles. In Jesus' time there where prophets seers and revelators (however you spell that), now there is one Prophet, seer, and revelator. His name is Thomas S. Monson. There is now only one and not many because there is need for only one. The Keys of the Priesthood are back on Earth. The Church is finally back to the way it was during Jesus' time here on Earth. Hence the name The Church of JESUS CHRIST of LATTER-DAY Saints. The LDS Church was founded purely on the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Church he created during his time.

ALL OF THIS CAN BE FOUND IN THE BIBLE!!!!!
And as for the Trinity, since you guys seem to really love that topic, it is possible, but is not real. There is only one God yes, He is the SUPREME BEING. I don't know why people can't seem to wrap their minds around the fact that Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost (Spirit) are three seperate beings. Heavenly Father is not breaking his own laws (You must not have anyother Gods before me), because he is the SUPREME BEING. There are NOT any other God's before him. Jesus Christ is his son, he is not God or Heavenly Father (same person), nor is he the Holy Ghost (Spirit). They are all three seperate personages. Heavenly Father is not breaking any of his own laws. He is a SUPREME BEING, there are not any other God's BEFORE him.

And since Heavenly Father is NOT breaking any of his own laws and is a SUPREME BEING, the LDS Church is monotheistic, not polytheistic. We believe in one God and one God only. He is the master of all.

Sorry bud, but, if this is true, then God IS breaking His own laws.  Acts 4:12 says that, "there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved," and in John 14:6, "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me."  Also, Philippians 2:10,11 tells us that every knee will bow and every tounge confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.  The ONLY way for this to be true and NOT be violating the first and second commandments is that Jesus is in fact God...because these verses deal with WORSHIPPING JESUS.  Anything that takes precedence in our lives over God is an IDOL...a "god," so-to-speak.  As for the Holy Spirit, we are told in Matthew 12:31,32 and Luke 12:10 that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.  Same logic here, if the Trinity were not real, then this importance given to the Holy Spirit would then be placing more on Him than God and therefore worshipping the Spirit over God. 

This on top of all the scripture supporting the fact that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are ONE.  It's THAT that we, as humans, have such difficulty wrapping our minds around.  To believe that they are completely seperate as Mormon teaching states, would be the easier thing to "wrap our minds around."  However, the Bible does not teach this.

As for being tolerant of other "religions," I'm not...and make no apologies of that.  I "tolerate" some things for the sake of the opportunity to share the truth.  But, make no mistake about it, the truth is what I will share.  That truth is this...that any "faith" not declairing Jesus Christ as Lord, the only way to the Father, being ONE with the Father and the Holy Spirit, His sacrifice on the cross as the perfect and complete atonement for our sins, His ressurection from the dead, and His coming again to take home those who are His....any not claiming these things is a FALSE religion and leads people to hell.  It is to those teachings and the like that I and many others will not be tolerant.

[The Deacon OCS]

Agreed Mouko. And I am not tolerant of false doctrine either.

Also with respect to Mormon's being tolerant of other religions, they are not.

More info from CARM on Mormons tolerance, need for a modern day prophet and why they are not "Christian's"

Does Mormonism Attack Other Religions?

      Mormons do not like it when their Church is labeled a cult by Christians. This bothers them and they want desperately to be accepted as Christian by the Christian community. The Mormon church spends a great deal of time and money on public relations with the aim of portraying a loving, family oriented, non-condemning Christian denomination. But Christians react to this and cite the great differences in doctrine between Mormons and Christians and continue to pronounce the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as a non-Christian cult.
      The battle continues and Mormons try to claim that they do not go around condemning other religions like "anti-Mormons" do. They say they are forgiving, tolerant, good Christian people who don't have anything against anyone. They claim they are being more Christ-like.
      Their desire for a good image is understandable. But the question remains. Does the Mormon church condemn other religious systems? The answer is definitely, "Yes." Let's look at Mormon writers and see what they have said.

Joseph Smith said . . .

(Regarding Joseph Smith's alleged first vision where celestial personages appeared to him.) . . .) "My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right — and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight: that those professors were all corrupt . . ." (Joseph Smith, "History of the Church, Vol. 1, page 5-6.)

"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world." ("Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith," Compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith, page 270.)

(In questions directed to Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism. . .)
      First -- "Do you believe the Bible?"
      If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do."
      Third — "Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?"
      Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings, page 119.)

Brigham Young said. . .

"But He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong." (Brigham Young, "Journal of Discourses," Vol. 2, page 171. - 1855)

John Taylor said . . .

"We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense....Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century."( Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 167 - 1858)

"Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (J.D.", Vol. 10, page 127. - 1863)

James Talmage said . . .

"A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". ("The Articles of Faith," Deseret Book Company, Salt Lake City, Utah. P. 182.)

Bruce McConkie said . . .

"With the loss of the gospel, the nations of the earth went into a moral eclipse called the Dark Ages." ("Mormon Doctrine," Bookcraft, Salt Lake City, Utah, page. 44.)

Joseph Fielding Smith said . . .

"Again, following the death of his apostles, apostasy once more set in, and again the saving principles and ordinances of the gospel were changed to suit the conveniences and notions of the people. Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." ("Doctrines of Salvation," page 266.)

The Book of Mormon says. . .

"And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth" (1 Nephi 14:10).

"And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose foundation is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence. . ." (1 Nephi. 14:17).

The Doctrine and Covenants says . . .

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face" (Doctrine and Covenants, 112:23).


      When the Mormon missionaries come to the door and do their "gospel" presentation, they mention an apostasy and the need for a prophet, their prophet, to restore the true Teachings of Jesus. Of course, these ‘restored' teachings are completely false.
      Nevertheless, the Mormon church clearly condemns other religious systems. Those Mormons who complain about poor treatment should familiarize themselves with their teachers' words.

[The Deacon OCS]

....simply that Mormonism is NOT Christian due to the fact it denies who the Bible teaches Jesus is and what He has done to secure salvation to those who believe and trust in Him alone for their salvation.  Based on that ONE thing, it can not honestly be called Christian.  Then there are the other things denied about the nature of God. 

Right on point Mouko. And, here is something to consider:

Mormons claim to be Christian yet deny the essentials of Christianity; namely, that there is one God, that forgiveness of sins is by grace alone, that there is a trinity, that Jesus is God, etc.
     
Mormonism teaches that there are many many gods but that Mormons should serve and worship only one of them, the one of this world. It teaches that forgiveness of sins is not by grace alone. It denies the Trinity doctrine which says there is one God in three persons and instead says that there are three separate gods. It does not proclaim that Jesus is God, but that Jesus is "a" god.... etc.  Additionally, Mormons have secret temple rituals, even though the rituals have been done away with with the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem.
     
Now, Mormons deny these basic Christian doctrines, yet they want to be called Christian because they say they believe in the same Jesus of the Bible, among other things.  But when they speak of Jesus, they mean that Jesus is the brother of Satan, and you and I. They teach that we have all been born from god and his goddess wife who both have physical bodies of flesh and bones. None of this is in the Bible and none of this is believed by Christians.  But that has not stopped them from wanting to be called Christian.     

So, since the Mormons deny basic Christian doctrine and claim to be Christian, then I can deny basic Mormon doctrine and be a Mormon.



As Christians we deny the following Mormon teachings/doctrines:

There are many many gods (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, page 163).
The trinity is three separate gods (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith page 370).
God is a man from another planet (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 3).
There is a goddess mother (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, page 443).
God is married to his goddess wife (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.).
God and his goddess wife have bodies of flesh and bones (Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22; Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3.)
We were all born in the pre-existence (Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, page 218; Articles of Faith, page 174).
Satan is my spirit brother (Mormon Doctrine, page 163).
I need a temple (Articles of Faith, page 138).
I have the potential of becoming a god (Articles of Faith, page 424).
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible (History of the Church, 4:461).
Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, pages 81, 92).
My own blood must atone for any of my sins ((Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, page 247; see also, Vol. 4, pp. 53-54, 219-220).

Therefore, since the Mormons deny basic Christian doctrines and call them selves Christian, is it okay for me to deny basic Mormon doctrines and call myself a Mormon?  Doesn't make sense, does it?  

[Trauma Triage]

I just wanted to point out a inequality that I noticed.
Spartan, these are your words Verbatem:

And as for the Trinity, since you guys seem to really love that topic, it is possible, but is not real. There is only one God yes, He is the SUPREME BEING. I don't know why people can't seem to wrap their minds around the fact that Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost (Spirit) are three seperate beings. Heavenly Father is not breaking his own laws (You must not have anyother Gods before me), because he is the SUPREME BEING. There are NOT any other God's before him. Jesus Christ is his son, he is not God or Heavenly Father (same person), nor is he the Holy Ghost (Spirit). They are all three seperate personages. Heavenly Father is not breaking any of his own laws. He is a SUPREME BEING, there are not any other God's BEFORE him.

And since Heavenly Father is NOT breaking any of his own laws and is a SUPREME BEING, the LDS Church is monotheistic, not polytheistic. We believe in one God and one God only. He is the master of all.
....


]

And Deacon and Mouko have concrete evidence here:

As Christians we deny the following Mormon teachings/doctrines:

There are many many gods (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, page 163).
The trinity is three separate gods (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith page 370).
God is a man from another planet (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 3).
There is a goddess mother (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, page 443).
God is married to his goddess wife (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.).
God and his goddess wife have bodies of flesh and bones (Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22; Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3.)
We were all born in the pre-existence (Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, page 218; Articles of Faith, page 174).
Satan is my spirit brother (Mormon Doctrine, page 163).
I need a temple (Articles of Faith, page 138).
I have the potential of becoming a god (Articles of Faith, page 424).
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible (History of the Church, 4:461).
Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, pages 81, 92).
My own blood must atone for any of my sins ((Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, page 247; see also, Vol. 4, pp. 53-54, 219-220).

Therefore, since the Mormons deny basic Christian doctrines and call them selves Christian, is it okay for me to deny basic Mormon doctrines and call myself a Mormon?  Doesn't make sense, does it?  

Which esentially contradicts what was originally said that There is only one God, now all of a sudden there is 3, and a goddess mother, what? Oh and not to be sarcastic, but back to the trininty, Ok you Have God, The Son and The Holy Spirit, they cant function without going through the other, so it's easy they are one. 1 entity, 3 identities. It's simple with faith, for science, I guess good luck.