Mormonism

[PureKnight OCS]

I had to find information but... two things I want to point out...

1) Mormon believed that we have three heavens awaiting for us. Depending on our work and deed will determine which heaven I will enter. That was misinterpreter of the book of 1 Cor, I believe... Paul wrote third heaven. He dont meant there is three heavens but rather to describe the heaven where God resident in. First heaven is the day (sky, cloud, sun, etc...) then second heaven is the night (star, moon, etc...) then there is third heaven where God is there and that is where we will went.

2) Mormon do this ritual... they believe only righteous peopleand proven worthy elders can enter this nice temple to worship and feel Lord's presence while others have to "earn" the way to enjoy this prilvilege.In book of Hebrew reveals that Jesus' death torned the veil down so that EVERYBODY can enjoy this access and privilege. Everybody can come to Jesus and enjoy the presence of worship and to be filled with Holy Spirit.

You see... I am not against Mormon and like Deacon, I do have friends of Mormon and they start to come to understanding the conflict between Bible and the book of Mormon. I know you said Mormon is not consider as Bible but rather to add. If Bible does not support or in agreement with this teaching then sorry to say but it is false teaching. I pray you will read Bible and see what we are talking about. God bless you.

Meanwhile, I AM SOOOO GLAD you are here. You challenge us especially me. I need that. Also, I DO see your hunger and thirst to pleased our good Lord Jesus Christ. I have no doubt. I absolutely have no doubt. God bless you, sir.

[Mouko OCS]

Sparten, at this point all I can really ask of you is to take the Bible and compare the truth to what you are taught from the book of mormon.  The Bible is the only and final authority.  If you look at it with the same open mind you urge us to use, you will see there are major differences in all the wrong places, and that the truth is found in the Word, not in the mormon teachings.  ANYTHING or teaching that does not match up 100% with the Word is not from God and will lead you to hell.  Just remember, no matter how strongly you believe in something, no matter how glorious it sounds, no matter how much it may lead to change in your life, can still lead you straight to hell when it's a lie.  God has ONE plan for salvation, found in His Word...all else is the broad road and wide gate that many will follow (Matthew 7:13).

As Deacon has said, we do not find ourselves against mormon folks themselves, we are against anything not of the gospel that will lead people astray.  We will be praying for you.

[TheLastSparten OCS]

As of right now, I am studying the Bible. I have been doing so since that start of my school year. It's for a seminary class I am taking to prepare me for my mission. And yes I do study it with an open mind like I urge you to do. When I read, I read in context. I also make sure I recieve the full meaning of what I read. And if I have a question, I ask about it. And I have read in the Bible, itself, evidence that Jesus Christ, Heavenly Father (God), and the Holy Ghost are 3 seperate beings. If they are not then who is Jesus praying to in the Garden of Gethsemane (sorry if it is spelled wrong)?

[Mouko OCS]

Several points to be made here, and for lack of time they will not be presented as well as I'd like.  I'll get back to it tonight when I can get home from work and explain.  But, the Bible makes it clear that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are in fact ONE.

John 1:1-14 is one of the best passages, to me, in relating the reality of the Father and Jesus Christ being one in the same and giving us a clearer “picture.”  John refers to Jesus here as the Word.  “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”  Reading in context, we see as we read clearly whom John is referring to...Christ.

Deuteronomy 6:4, Matthew 28:19 (God is ONE)  John 10:30,33,38; 14:9,23, 17:21,22 (Father and Son are ONE) John 14:16,18; (Holy Spirit)  Acts 5:3,4;  1 Corinthians 12:4-6,13

Phillipians 2:10,11  "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

If God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit were not one, then God would then have violated His own law in Exodus by the verses just mentioned...which we know He can not do.

Exodus 20:3-5   "You shall have no other gods before Me.  "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.  "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

I don't normally do this, BUT, I think it applicable here.  John MacArthur wrote on this subject briefly and I think he also brings out some good points.  I'll post it next.

[Mouko OCS]

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Articles/9962

The Trinity is an unfathomable, and yet unmistakable doctrine in Scripture. As Jonathan Edwards noted, after studying the topic extensively, “I think [the doctrine of the Trinity] to be the highest and deepest of all Divine mysteries” (An Unpublished Treatise on the Trinity).

Yet, though the fullness of the Trinity is far beyond human comprehension, it is unquestionably how God has revealed Himself in Scripture—as one God eternally existing in three Persons.

This is not to suggest, of course, that the Bible presents three different gods (cf. Deut. 6:4). Rather, God is three Persons in one essence; the Divine essence subsists wholly and indivisibly, simultaneously and eternally, in the three members of the one Godhead—the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (We considered the deity of Christ last Thursday, in this post .)

The Scriptures are clear that these three Persons together are one and only one God (Deut. 6:4). John 10:30 and 33 explain that the Father and the Son are one. First Corinthians 3:16 shows that the Father and the Spirit are one. Romans 8:9 makes clear that the Son and the Spirit are one. And John 14:16, 18, and 23 demonstrate that the Father, Son, and Spirit are one.

Yet, in exhibiting the unity between the members of the Trinity, the Word of God in no way denies the simultaneous existence and distinctiveness of each of the three Persons of the Godhead. In other words, the Bible makes it clear that God is one God (not three), but that the one God is a Trinity of Persons.

In the Old Testament, the Bible implies the idea of the Trinity in several ways. The title Elohim (”God”), for instance, is a plural noun which can suggest multiplicity (cf. Gen. 1:26). This corresponds to the fact that the plural pronoun (”us”) is sometimes used of God (Gen. 1:26; Isa. 6:8.). More directly, there are places in which God’s name is applied to more than one Person in the same text (Ps. 110:1; cf. Gen. 19:24). And there are also passages where all three divine Persons are seen at work (Is. 48:16; 61:1).

The New Testament builds significantly on these truths, revealing them more explicitly. The baptismal formula of Matthew 28:19 designates all three Persons of the Trinity: “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.” In his apostolic benediction to the Corinthians, Paul underscored this same reality. He wrote, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God [the Father], and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all” (2 Cor. 13:14). Other New Testament passages also spell out the glorious truth of the Triune God (Romans 15:16, 30; 2 Cor. 1:21–22; Eph. 2:18).

In describing the Trinity, the New Testament clearly distinguishes three Persons who are all simultaneously active. They are not merely modes or manifestations of the same person (as Oneness theology incorrectly asserts) who sometimes acts as Father, sometimes as Son, and sometimes as Spirit. At Christ’s baptism, all three Persons were simultaneously active (Matt. 3:16–17), with the Son being baptized, the Spirit descending, and the Father speaking from Heaven. Jesus Himself prayed to the Father (cf. Matt. 6:9), taught that His will was distinct from His Father’s (Matt. 26:39), promised that He would ask the Father to send the Spirit (John 14:16), and asked the Father to glorify Him (John 17:5). These actions would not make sense unless the Father and the Son were two distinct Persons. Elsewhere in the New Testament, the Holy Spirit intercedes before the Father on behalf of believers (Rom. 8:26), as does the Son, who is our Advocate (1 John 2:1). Again, the distinctness of each Person is in view.

The Bible is clear. There is only one God, yet He exists, and always has existed, as a Trinity of Persons—the Father, the Son, and the Spirit (cf. John 1:1, 2). To deny or misunderstand the Trinity is to deny or misunderstand the very nature of God Himself.

Today’s article was adapted from John’s commentary on 1-3 John.

[Ticker OCS]

To make this easier to understand. When Jesus was praying, his flesh was praying to his spirit. Because God is a  spirit,
John 4:24 "God is  spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth" and his spirit had to come down and dwell in flesh 1Tim 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:God WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH,justified in the spirit,seen of angels,preached unto the Gentiles,believed on in the world,received up in glory." in order to fulfill the word. And just to clarify before you say it. "NO Jesus was not praying in the sense that he "Didn't want to die for us" He knew what he had to do, we all cry out at times, just as Jesus did here. John 10:30 "I and my father are one" 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father,the Word,and the Holy Ghost: these three are ONE" Hope that helps

[Mouko OCS]

Thanks Ticker. I was at work and stayed a bit after to check the forums.  Well, I realized after I'd left to go home that I had not gone back to the question.

As you said, Jesus knew what He had to do.  It is good to think of this not in terms of His fear of the crucifixion itself, but, of what deeper pain lay ahead...and not fear, but extreme sorrow.  The word used to describe what Jesus felt was the strongest of the 3 Greek words used to describe depression in the New Testament.  His agony and sorrow here reflected what He knew was coming, not simply in the scourging, beatings, mockings, nails...but in the"cup" of God's unhindered wrath poured out on Him.

Matthew Henry had this to say:

Observe,
I. The place where he underwent this mighty agony; it was in a place called Gethsemane. The name signifies, torculus olei-an olive-mill, a press for olives, like a wine-press, where they trod the olives, Mic. 6:15. And this was the proper place for such a thing, at the foot of the mount of Olives. There our Lord Jesus began his passion; there it pleased the Lord to bruise him, and crush him, that fresh oil might flow to all believers from him, that we might partake of the root and fatness of that good Olive. There he trod the wine-press of his Father's wrath, and trod it alone.

As for Jesus praying to the Father...one point I brought up in a different topic I believe also applies here.  Jesus, while on earth and in the form of man, lived the ultimate example for us.  He lived a perfect and sinless life.  We are to follow His example.  He showed us the kind of relationship also that we can have with the Father as well. 

John 11:42 shows us an example of Jesus praying just prior to raising Lazarus from the dead.

John 11:42  And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

Matthew Henry again puts it well...

But why should Christ give this public intimation of his obtaining this miracle by prayer? He adds, It is because of the people who stand by, that they may believe that thou hast sent me; for prayer may preach. 1. It was to obviate the objections of his enemies, and their reflections. It was blasphemously suggested by the Pharisees, and their creatures, that he wrought his miracles by compact with the devil; now, to evidence the contrary, he openly made his address to God, using prayers, and not charms, not peeping and muttering as those did that used familiar spirits (Isa. 8:19), but, with elevated eyes and voice professing his communication with Heaven, and dependence on Heaven. 2. It was to corroborate the faith of those that were well inclined to him: That they may believe that thou hast sent me, not to destroy men's lives, but to save them. Moses, to show that God sent him, made the earth open and swallow men up (Num. 16:31); Elijah, to show that God sent him, made fire come from heaven and devour men; for the law was a dispensation of terror and death but Christ proves his mission by raising to life one that was dead.

[Trauma Triage]

Wow that was a lot of awesome information to read through. I only wanted to comment on a couple of things that I noticed while reading through these posts, oh The Last Spartan, Hi I'm Trauma, just wanted to be polite, anyways, 1st You asked earlier about faith, and it takes work and how it seems so easily gained by most Christians, all I can say is faith is something that you work for/ earn/ fall for/ everything man. Faith for me is tested all the time. Faith is a undieing commitment to your higher power, through anything and everything I stay committed to God. I have had people make fun of me for my religion and yet I stay loyal. No matter what happens to a man/woman of faith, remains true. But then again, alot come's with faith, Satan constantly wants you to lose faith, he will show you every way possible to look away from God. God teaches us lessons, sometimes he takes a break from us, does not leave us though, but lets us experience some major discomfort. Every time he has done that to me, I hear Him saying, "When are you going to let go Mike, when are you going to stop trying to controll everything, when are you going to stop disobeying Me, and let Me help you, "hence the phrase let go and let God." 

2nd part, you said earlier believe in God, there is no believing, there is only knowing God. Satan Believes in God, he knows His power, so it would be really dumb of Satan not to believe in God. When you Know God that is the undenyable truth, you know whats true. Belief leaves room for error, the possibly in being wrong, such as "I believe thats right." It's possible that it's wrong.

3rd God, Christ, and The Holy Ghost are not three different entities, they are a whole. The Holy Trinity is unending, One through the other through the other. You cannot have one without the rest. Because I am Scottish I love to include this in topics like this:

"A symbol of the Holy Trinity is the triquetra (often, triqueta) is a tripartate symbol composed of three interlocked vesica pisces, marking the intersection of three circles. It is most commonly a symbol of the Holy Trinity (Father, son, Holy spirit) used by the Celtic Christian Church, sometimes stylized as three interlaced fishThe triqueta symbol predates Christianity and was likely a Celtic symbol of the Goddess, and in the North, a symbol of the god Odin. Although it is often asserted that the triquetra is a symbol of a tripartite goddess, no such goddess has been identified with the symbol. Similar symbols do occur in some Norse and Celtic goddess imagery, but most likely represents the divisions of the animal kingdom and the three domains of earth mentioned above. Triplicities were common symbols in Celtic myth and legend, one of the possible reasons Christian beliefs were so easily adopted by the Celtic people." (about.com)

"The triqueta makes an ideal Christian symbol. It is a perfect representation of the concept of "three in one" in Christian trinity beliefs, and incorporates another popular Christian symbol, the fish, in its original form of the vesica pisces. It is sometimes enclosed within a circle to emphasize the unity aspect.In Wiccan and Neopagan belief, the triqueta symbolizes the triple aspected goddess (maid, mother, and crone). Some Christians have protested this "appropriation" of the symbol...however, ironically enough, the original Christian fish symbol was derived from an early symbol of venus, one representing female generative organs- making the triquetra perfectly appropriate symbol for a Goddess revival. The triquetra is also considered to represnt the triplicities of mind, body, and soul, as well as the three domains of earth according to Celtic legend- earth, sea, and sky. " (about.com)

"The triquetra also appears on the television series Charmed, probably as a less threatening alternative to the pentacle (the preferred emblem of witches real and imaginary). In the show, it represents the "power of three, acting as one " which in turn represents the three sisters." (about.com)

"Evangelical tract writers and conspiracy theorists like to label the triquetra a 'satanic' symbol, claiming it is a 'stylized' 666, an allusion to the 'number of the beast' in the Book of Revelation. This, however, is simply wishful thinking. The triquetra of interlaced fishes is one of the very earliest of Christian symbols, predating the crucifix by hundreds of years. The purported 'satanic' meaning of the symbol is a modern evangelical interpolation."(about.com)

Works Cited
http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefstriqueta.htm

[The Deacon OCS]

Here is a website that you can go to with more information on why mormonism conflicts with the Bible. There are a few videos to watch as well. The website is full of information on this issue

http://www.lhvm.org/index.htm

Here is one of many videos you can watch to explain the differences. http://www.lhvm.org/vid_bible_med.htm

[TheLastSparten OCS]

In Jesus' time there where 12 apostles, now there are 12 apostles. In Jesus' time there where prophets seers and revelators (however you spell that), now there is one Prophet, seer, and revelator. His name is Thomas S. Monson. There is now only one and not many because there is need for only one. The Keys of the Priesthood are back on Earth. The Church is finally back to the way it was during Jesus' time here on Earth. Hence the name The Church of JESUS CHRIST of LATTER-DAY Saints. The LDS Church was founded purely on the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Church he created during his time.

ALL OF THIS CAN BE FOUND IN THE BIBLE!!!!!

This can also be found in the Book of Mormon, though it only depicts what happens in the Americas, the SAME things happened. He appointed 12 apostles to lead the Church in the Americas, Jesus gave them the necessary keys to run the Church.

The Apostles in the old world (Europe, Middle East, Asia) saw that the people of that day where becoming corrupt and with it the Church, because of that the keys where never passed on, but died with the apostles.

In the Americas, the Church had it's ups and downs, the people would be faithful then be unfaithful and have cycles. But the Nephites (the faithful and those who held the keys) were doomed to a state of such recession that they were wiped out by there brothers the Lamanites (now called Native Americans, and many other things in South America, like the Aztecs and so on). This then stopped the keys from being passed along just as effectively as a corrupted church.

And as for the Trinity, since you guys seem to really love that topic, it is possible, but is not real. There is only one God yes, He is the SUPREME BEING. I don't know why people can't seem to wrap their minds around the fact that Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost (Spirit) are three seperate beings. Heavenly Father is not breaking his own laws (You must not have anyother Gods before me), because he is the SUPREME BEING. There are NOT any other God's before him. Jesus Christ is his son, he is not God or Heavenly Father (same person), nor is he the Holy Ghost (Spirit). They are all three seperate personages. Heavenly Father is not breaking any of his own laws. He is a SUPREME BEING, there are not any other God's BEFORE him.

And since Heavenly Father is NOT breaking any of his own laws and is a SUPREME BEING, the LDS Church is monotheistic, not polytheistic. We believe in one God and one God only. He is the master of all.

And with that I'll be signing off as I should have been in bed an hour ago, which may be the reason this may sound like I'm rather agitated.
I'm also very tolerant of other religions. I'm saying this because it may not sound like it with what I have written.
 

[The Deacon OCS]

The LDS Church was founded purely on the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Church he created during his time.

Spartan - Now you are starting to do your homework which makes this much more interesting.

The LDS Church was founded on the teachings of Joseph Smith ie. Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, The Book of Abraham, Journal of Discourse and others. The Bible simply collects dust in the LDS Church. As I have said before, it is well documented by the Mormons that Joseph Smith used ruby colored glasses to interpret the tablets given to him by the angel Moroni. Many of the books written by Smith conflict with each other. As I have indicated before the Genesis account is one such area.

Lets see some major differences below between Christianity and the Mormons. Below are teachings from the various Mormon doctrines. These clearly teach an entirely different theology than the Bible

The truth is, the following is what Mormons are taught.

Atonement
"Jesus paid for all our sins when He suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane," (Laurel Rohlfing, “Sharing Time: The Atonement,” Friend, Mar. 1989, 39.)
"We accept Christ's atonement by repenting of our sins, being baptized, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and obeying all of the commandments," (Gospel Principles, Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1979, pg. 68.)

Baptism
Baptism for the dead, (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. II, p. 141.) This is a practice of baptizing each other in place of non-Mormons who are now dead. Their belief is that in the afterlife, the "newly baptized" person will be able to enter into a higher level of Mormon heaven.

Bible
"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. . ." 8th Article of Faith of the Mormon Church.
"Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God." (1 Nephi 13:28).

Book of Mormon
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, 4:461.)

Devil, the
The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, page 192.)
Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.)
A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god." (Mormon Doctrine, page 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, page 8.)

God
God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321.  Joseph Smith,  Times and Seasons, Vol 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333.)
"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s..." (D&C 130:22).
God is in the form of a man, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3.)
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345
God the Father had a Father, (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 19; Milton Hunter, First Council of the Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105.)
God resides near a star called Kolob, (Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428.)
God had sexual relations with Mary to make the body of Jesus, (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, p. 218, 1857; vol. 8, p. 115.) - This one is disputed among many Mormons and not always 'officially' taught and believed.  Nevertheless, Young, the 2nd prophet of the Mormon church taught it.
"Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).

God, becoming a god
After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354.)
"Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them," (DC 132:20).

God, many gods
There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.)
"And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3)

God, mother goddess
There is a mother god, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443.)
God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.)

God, Trinity
The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35.)

Gospel, the
The true gospel was lost from the earth. Mormonism is its restoration, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 182-185.)
Consists of laws and ordinances: "As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements -- 'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.'" (Articles of Faith p. 79)

Heaven
There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial, Mormon Doctrine, p. 348.

Holy Ghost, the
The Holy Ghost is a male personage, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, (Le Grand Richards, Salt Lake City, 1956, page 118; Journal of Discources, Vol. 5, page 179.)

 Jesus
The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, page 129.)
Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163; Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15.)
Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247, 1856.)
"Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8: p. 115).
"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Mormon Doctrine," by Bruce McConkie, p. 547).
"Christ Not Begotten of Holy Ghost ...Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!" (Doctrines of Salvation, Joseph Fielding Smith, 1954, 1:18).
"Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh ..." (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, God the Father, compiled by Gordon Allred, pg. 150).

Joseph Smith
If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation.  There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670.)

Pre-existence
We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth, (Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, p. 218.)
The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, page 129.)
The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, page 192.)

Prophets
We need prophets today, the same as in the Old Testament, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 444-445.)

Salvation
"One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation." (Miracle of Forgiveness, Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206.)
A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god." (Mormon Doctrine, page 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, page 8.)
Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247, 1856.)
Good works are necessary for salvation, Articles of Faith, p. 92.)
There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188.)
"The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79.)
"As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements -- 'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.'" (Articles of Faith p. 79).
"This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts" (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697). 
"We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do," (2 Nephi 25:23).

Trinity, the
The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35.)
"Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God [anyhow]--three in one and one in three. . .It is curious organization… All are crammed into one God according to sectarianism (Christian faith). It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God--he would be a giant or a monster." (Joseph Smith, Teachings, 372).

Some Mormons may disagree with a few of the points listed on this page, but all of what is stated here is from Mormon authors in good standing of the Mormon church.

[The Deacon OCS]

I guess we should all move to Utah. It's a christian run state .....

From CARM

Is Mormonism Christian?
 
"Is Mormonism Christian?" is a very important question. The answer is equally important and simple.  No. Mormonism is not Christian.
     
If you are a Mormon, please realize that CARM is not trying to attack you, your character, or the sincerity of your belief.  If you are a non-Mormon looking into Mormonism, or if you are a Christian who is simply researching Mormonism, then this paper should be of help to you.
     
The reason Mormonism is not Christian is because it denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity. Of the essential doctrines (that there is only one God, Jesus is God in flesh, forgiveness of sins is by grace alone, and Jesus rose from the dead physically, the gospel being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus), Mormonism denies three of them: how many gods there are, the person of Jesus, and His work of salvation.
     
Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (D. & C. 130:22) and that Jesus is a creation.  It teaches that he was begotten in heaven as one of God’s spirit children (See the Book, Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage, p.8 ).  This is in strict contrast to the biblical teaching that he is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14), eternal (John 1:1, 2, 15), uncreated, yet born on earth (Col. 1:15), and the creator all (John 1:3; Col. 1;16-17). Jesus cannot be both created and not created at the same time. Though Mormonism teaches that Jesus is god in flesh, it teaches that he is "a" god in flesh, one of three gods that comprise the office of the Trinity (Articles of Faith, by Talmage, pp. 35-40). These three gods are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This is in direct contradiction of the biblical doctrine that there is only one God (Isaiah 44:6,8; 45:5).  See Trinity for a correct discussion of what the Trinity is.
     
Because Mormonism denies the biblical truth of who God is, who Jesus is, how forgiveness of sins is attained, and what the gospel is, the Mormon is not Christian -- in spite of all his claims that he is.       

Mormonism teaches

Mormon theology teaches that god is only one of countless gods, that he used to be a man on another planet, that he became a god by following the laws and ordinances of that god on that world, and that he brought one of his wives to this world with whom he produces spirit children who then inhabit human bodies at birth. The first spirit child to be born was Jesus. Second was Satan, and then we all followed.  But, the Bible says that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5), that God has eternally been God (Psalm 90:2) -- which means he was never a man on another planet.  Since the Bible denies the existence of other gods (and goddesses), the idea that Jesus is the product of a god and goddess couple is rejected.  The Bible tells us that Jesus The Jesus of Mormonism is definitely not the same Jesus of the Bible. Therefore, faith in the Mormon Jesus, is faith misplaced because the Mormon Jesus doesn't exist.
     
Mormonism teaches that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross itself (and receiving it by faith) is not sufficient to bring forgiveness of sins. It teaches that the forgiveness of sins is obtained though a cooperative effort with God; that is, we must be good and follow the laws and ordinances of the Mormon church in order to obtain forgiveness. Consider James Talmage, a very important Mormon figure who said, "The sectarian dogma of justification by faith alone has exercised an influence for evil," (Articles, p. 432), and "Hence the justice of the scriptural doctrine that salvation comes to the individual only through obedience," (Articles, p. 81). This contradicts the biblical doctrine of the forgiveness of sins by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; 6:23; Eph. 2:8-9) and the doctrine that works are not part of our salvation but a result of them (Rom. 4:5, James 2:14-18).
     
To further confuse the matter, Mormonism further states that salvation is twofold.  It maintains that salvation is both forgiveness of sins and universal resurrection. So when a Mormon speaks of salvation by grace, he is usually referring to universal resurrection. But the Bible speaks of salvation as the forgiveness of sins, not simple universal resurrection. Where Mormonism states that forgiveness of sins is not by faith alone, the Bible does teaches it is by faith alone. Which is correct? Obviously, it is the Bible.

Mormonism and the Bible

In order to justify its aberrant theology, Mormonism, has undermined the authority and trustworthiness of the Bible.  The 8th article of faith from the Mormon Church states, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly."  This means that when the Bible contradicts Mormonism, the Bible isn't trustworthy.
     
The interesting thing is that Joseph Smith allegedly corrected the Bible in what is called The Inspired Version, though it is not used by the LDS church.  Though they claim they trust the Bible, in reality they do not.  They use Mormon presuppositions to interpret it instead of letting it speak for itself.  For example, where the Bible says there are no other gods in the universe (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8), they interpret it to mean "no other gods of this world" - which is not what those verses say.  They do not trust the Bible and they often state that the Bible is not translated correctly. 

Conclusion

Why is Mormonism a non Christian religion? It is not Christian because it denies that there is only one God, denies the true Gospel, adds works to salvation, denies that Jesus is the uncreated creator, distorts the biblical teaching of the atonement, and undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible.
     
CARM does not deny that Mormons are good people, that they worship "a" god, that they share common words with Christians, that they help their people, and that they do many good things.  But that isn't what makes someone Christian.  Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23, " Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" (NKJV). Becoming a Christian does not mean belonging to a church, doing good things, or simply believing in God. Being a Christian means that you have trusted in the true God for salvation, in the True Jesus -- not the brother of the devil, not the god of Mormonism, not the gospel of Mormonism.  Mormonism is false and cannot save anyone.

[Mouko OCS]

Thanks for the information Deacon.  This last post deals with what I was about to post, but you put it far better with that post than I would have...simply that Mormonism is NOT Christian due to the fact it denies who the Bible teaches Jesus is and what He has done to secure salvation to those who believe and trust in Him alone for their salvation.  Based on that ONE thing, it can not honestly be called Christian.  Then there are the other things denied about the nature of God. 

As others have said, and I will also say, this is NOT an attack on Mormons themselves...but on it's teachings.

In Jesus' time there where 12 apostles, now there are 12 apostles. In Jesus' time there where prophets seers and revelators (however you spell that), now there is one Prophet, seer, and revelator. His name is Thomas S. Monson. There is now only one and not many because there is need for only one. The Keys of the Priesthood are back on Earth. The Church is finally back to the way it was during Jesus' time here on Earth. Hence the name The Church of JESUS CHRIST of LATTER-DAY Saints. The LDS Church was founded purely on the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Church he created during his time.

ALL OF THIS CAN BE FOUND IN THE BIBLE!!!!!
And as for the Trinity, since you guys seem to really love that topic, it is possible, but is not real. There is only one God yes, He is the SUPREME BEING. I don't know why people can't seem to wrap their minds around the fact that Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost (Spirit) are three seperate beings. Heavenly Father is not breaking his own laws (You must not have anyother Gods before me), because he is the SUPREME BEING. There are NOT any other God's before him. Jesus Christ is his son, he is not God or Heavenly Father (same person), nor is he the Holy Ghost (Spirit). They are all three seperate personages. Heavenly Father is not breaking any of his own laws. He is a SUPREME BEING, there are not any other God's BEFORE him.

And since Heavenly Father is NOT breaking any of his own laws and is a SUPREME BEING, the LDS Church is monotheistic, not polytheistic. We believe in one God and one God only. He is the master of all.

Sorry bud, but, if this is true, then God IS breaking His own laws.  Acts 4:12 says that, "there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved," and in John 14:6, "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me."  Also, Philippians 2:10,11 tells us that every knee will bow and every tounge confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.  The ONLY way for this to be true and NOT be violating the first and second commandments is that Jesus is in fact God...because these verses deal with WORSHIPPING JESUS.  Anything that takes precedence in our lives over God is an IDOL...a "god," so-to-speak.  As for the Holy Spirit, we are told in Matthew 12:31,32 and Luke 12:10 that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.  Same logic here, if the Trinity were not real, then this importance given to the Holy Spirit would then be placing more on Him than God and therefore worshipping the Spirit over God. 

This on top of all the scripture supporting the fact that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are ONE.  It's THAT that we, as humans, have such difficulty wrapping our minds around.  To believe that they are completely seperate as Mormon teaching states, would be the easier thing to "wrap our minds around."  However, the Bible does not teach this.

As for being tolerant of other "religions," I'm not...and make no apologies of that.  I "tolerate" some things for the sake of the opportunity to share the truth.  But, make no mistake about it, the truth is what I will share.  That truth is this...that any "faith" not declairing Jesus Christ as Lord, the only way to the Father, being ONE with the Father and the Holy Spirit, His sacrifice on the cross as the perfect and complete atonement for our sins, His ressurection from the dead, and His coming again to take home those who are His....any not claiming these things is a FALSE religion and leads people to hell.  It is to those teachings and the like that I and many others will not be tolerant.

[The Deacon OCS]

Agreed Mouko. And I am not tolerant of false doctrine either.

Also with respect to Mormon's being tolerant of other religions, they are not.

More info from CARM on Mormons tolerance, need for a modern day prophet and why they are not "Christian's"

Does Mormonism Attack Other Religions?

      Mormons do not like it when their Church is labeled a cult by Christians. This bothers them and they want desperately to be accepted as Christian by the Christian community. The Mormon church spends a great deal of time and money on public relations with the aim of portraying a loving, family oriented, non-condemning Christian denomination. But Christians react to this and cite the great differences in doctrine between Mormons and Christians and continue to pronounce the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as a non-Christian cult.
      The battle continues and Mormons try to claim that they do not go around condemning other religions like "anti-Mormons" do. They say they are forgiving, tolerant, good Christian people who don't have anything against anyone. They claim they are being more Christ-like.
      Their desire for a good image is understandable. But the question remains. Does the Mormon church condemn other religious systems? The answer is definitely, "Yes." Let's look at Mormon writers and see what they have said.

Joseph Smith said . . .

(Regarding Joseph Smith's alleged first vision where celestial personages appeared to him.) . . .) "My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right — and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight: that those professors were all corrupt . . ." (Joseph Smith, "History of the Church, Vol. 1, page 5-6.)

"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world." ("Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith," Compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith, page 270.)

(In questions directed to Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism. . .)
      First -- "Do you believe the Bible?"
      If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do."
      Third — "Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?"
      Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings, page 119.)

Brigham Young said. . .

"But He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong." (Brigham Young, "Journal of Discourses," Vol. 2, page 171. - 1855)

John Taylor said . . .

"We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense....Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century."( Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 167 - 1858)

"Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (J.D.", Vol. 10, page 127. - 1863)

James Talmage said . . .

"A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". ("The Articles of Faith," Deseret Book Company, Salt Lake City, Utah. P. 182.)

Bruce McConkie said . . .

"With the loss of the gospel, the nations of the earth went into a moral eclipse called the Dark Ages." ("Mormon Doctrine," Bookcraft, Salt Lake City, Utah, page. 44.)

Joseph Fielding Smith said . . .

"Again, following the death of his apostles, apostasy once more set in, and again the saving principles and ordinances of the gospel were changed to suit the conveniences and notions of the people. Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." ("Doctrines of Salvation," page 266.)

The Book of Mormon says. . .

"And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth" (1 Nephi 14:10).

"And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose foundation is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence. . ." (1 Nephi. 14:17).

The Doctrine and Covenants says . . .

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face" (Doctrine and Covenants, 112:23).


      When the Mormon missionaries come to the door and do their "gospel" presentation, they mention an apostasy and the need for a prophet, their prophet, to restore the true Teachings of Jesus. Of course, these ‘restored' teachings are completely false.
      Nevertheless, the Mormon church clearly condemns other religious systems. Those Mormons who complain about poor treatment should familiarize themselves with their teachers' words.

[The Deacon OCS]

....simply that Mormonism is NOT Christian due to the fact it denies who the Bible teaches Jesus is and what He has done to secure salvation to those who believe and trust in Him alone for their salvation.  Based on that ONE thing, it can not honestly be called Christian.  Then there are the other things denied about the nature of God. 

Right on point Mouko. And, here is something to consider:

Mormons claim to be Christian yet deny the essentials of Christianity; namely, that there is one God, that forgiveness of sins is by grace alone, that there is a trinity, that Jesus is God, etc.
     
Mormonism teaches that there are many many gods but that Mormons should serve and worship only one of them, the one of this world. It teaches that forgiveness of sins is not by grace alone. It denies the Trinity doctrine which says there is one God in three persons and instead says that there are three separate gods. It does not proclaim that Jesus is God, but that Jesus is "a" god.... etc.  Additionally, Mormons have secret temple rituals, even though the rituals have been done away with with the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem.
     
Now, Mormons deny these basic Christian doctrines, yet they want to be called Christian because they say they believe in the same Jesus of the Bible, among other things.  But when they speak of Jesus, they mean that Jesus is the brother of Satan, and you and I. They teach that we have all been born from god and his goddess wife who both have physical bodies of flesh and bones. None of this is in the Bible and none of this is believed by Christians.  But that has not stopped them from wanting to be called Christian.     

So, since the Mormons deny basic Christian doctrine and claim to be Christian, then I can deny basic Mormon doctrine and be a Mormon.



As Christians we deny the following Mormon teachings/doctrines:

There are many many gods (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, page 163).
The trinity is three separate gods (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith page 370).
God is a man from another planet (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 3).
There is a goddess mother (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, page 443).
God is married to his goddess wife (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.).
God and his goddess wife have bodies of flesh and bones (Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22; Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3.)
We were all born in the pre-existence (Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, page 218; Articles of Faith, page 174).
Satan is my spirit brother (Mormon Doctrine, page 163).
I need a temple (Articles of Faith, page 138).
I have the potential of becoming a god (Articles of Faith, page 424).
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible (History of the Church, 4:461).
Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, pages 81, 92).
My own blood must atone for any of my sins ((Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, page 247; see also, Vol. 4, pp. 53-54, 219-220).

Therefore, since the Mormons deny basic Christian doctrines and call them selves Christian, is it okay for me to deny basic Mormon doctrines and call myself a Mormon?  Doesn't make sense, does it?  

[Trauma Triage]

I just wanted to point out a inequality that I noticed.
Spartan, these are your words Verbatem:

And as for the Trinity, since you guys seem to really love that topic, it is possible, but is not real. There is only one God yes, He is the SUPREME BEING. I don't know why people can't seem to wrap their minds around the fact that Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost (Spirit) are three seperate beings. Heavenly Father is not breaking his own laws (You must not have anyother Gods before me), because he is the SUPREME BEING. There are NOT any other God's before him. Jesus Christ is his son, he is not God or Heavenly Father (same person), nor is he the Holy Ghost (Spirit). They are all three seperate personages. Heavenly Father is not breaking any of his own laws. He is a SUPREME BEING, there are not any other God's BEFORE him.

And since Heavenly Father is NOT breaking any of his own laws and is a SUPREME BEING, the LDS Church is monotheistic, not polytheistic. We believe in one God and one God only. He is the master of all.
....


]

And Deacon and Mouko have concrete evidence here:

As Christians we deny the following Mormon teachings/doctrines:

There are many many gods (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, page 163).
The trinity is three separate gods (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith page 370).
God is a man from another planet (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 3).
There is a goddess mother (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, page 443).
God is married to his goddess wife (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.).
God and his goddess wife have bodies of flesh and bones (Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22; Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3.)
We were all born in the pre-existence (Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, page 218; Articles of Faith, page 174).
Satan is my spirit brother (Mormon Doctrine, page 163).
I need a temple (Articles of Faith, page 138).
I have the potential of becoming a god (Articles of Faith, page 424).
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible (History of the Church, 4:461).
Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, pages 81, 92).
My own blood must atone for any of my sins ((Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, page 247; see also, Vol. 4, pp. 53-54, 219-220).

Therefore, since the Mormons deny basic Christian doctrines and call them selves Christian, is it okay for me to deny basic Mormon doctrines and call myself a Mormon?  Doesn't make sense, does it?  

Which esentially contradicts what was originally said that There is only one God, now all of a sudden there is 3, and a goddess mother, what? Oh and not to be sarcastic, but back to the trininty, Ok you Have God, The Son and The Holy Spirit, they cant function without going through the other, so it's easy they are one. 1 entity, 3 identities. It's simple with faith, for science, I guess good luck.