Can You Lose Your Salvation?

[The Deacon OCS]

Now, back to the point... got another but similar question. If this person already confess and believe in Lord Jesus Christ. Years went by, this person willingful decided to commit any sort of sin. Then what? is this person still saved?

I don't think one has to wait for "years". You and I commit sin on a daily basis. Some intentional and some because we can't help ourselves (sins committed inside our minds such as lust and etc). So whether or not it is today or years from now a sin is a sin. Does commiting sin mean that you are not saved? The answer would be no. The question is was the person saved to begin with. There are usually outward professions and examples of whether someone is saved or not. Many of the Pharisee's (and there are many examples of them living today) exhibited outward displays of religion but they were not saved (Christ made this statement verbally) because their heart and actions were not truly for God.

[TheLastSparten OCS]

Yea, what is sin? You guys seem to have trouble defining this.

[Elad OCS]

WOW - loaded question. Bible will tell you all you need.
True, if you do know know His Word, then you won't know what sin is.
Disobeying God - Rebellion against His teachings...

Google Sin... Here is one that popped up right away in a nutshell.... http://www.allaboutgod.com/what-is-sin.htm

[The Deacon OCS]

Yea, what is sin? You guys seem to have trouble defining this.

Where do you see that? I think that everyone that has posted on this thread is in agreement. I am pretty sure that you would get agreement from all OCS members about what sin is.

Don't confuse the deep but often misunderstood theological discussion about  Armenianism vs Calvinism with what we believe sin is or is not. This thread is about whether or not you can lose your salvation.

Elad is right - read the Bible and it will show you what God says sin is.  Perhaps you will put the book of mormon down for a while and research sin in the Bible for yourself.

If you want to know more about sin, post another thread. This one is about salvation.

Thank you.

[TheLastSparten OCS]

I have a combined works book, I pick up both at the same time. I've actually been in the bible more than the book of mormon recently any way.

And sin and losing your salvation run hand in hand so it does apply here.

[The Deacon OCS]

As I understand it the mormon church preaches you can lose your salvation, however, mainstream Christianity preaches that once saved, always saved.

[TheLastSparten OCS]

hmmmm, I get it.

[Mouko OCS]

Ok, I guess I've slacked off long enough...heh heh...my apologies.  I've gotten lazy with a writing I started a while back and said I'd finish.  It does take into account, though does not completely center on, the whole Armenianism vs Calvanism discussion.  However, it is more geared to a very easy-to-understand Biblical approach to the topic of permanence of salvation, the efficiency of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, the power of God to preserve, and the total lack of contribution by man to his own salvation.  It will address this issue of sin and it's effects on our lives as believers as well.

I've actually been in the bible more than the book of mormon recently any way.

GOOD!! When it comes to the book of GOD, no other book compares...

[PureKnight OCS]

I thought I should stir it up just little more... I think I am looking for the trouble. (winking)

This is constitution from Assemblies of God which I am afflicted with:

"In view of the biblical teaching that the security of the believer depends on a living relationship with Christ (John 15:6); in view of the Bible’s call to a life of holiness (1 Peter 1:16; Hebrews 12:14); in view of the clear teaching that a man may have his part taken out of the Book of Life (Revelation 22:19); and in view of the fact that one who believes for a while can fall away (Luke 8:13); The General Council of the Assemblies of God disapproves of the unconditional security position which holds that it is impossible for a person once saved to be lost."

Furthermore... I have been studying the book of Revelation... I found some interesting and worth to mention...

Jesus "write" to the seven churches... warn them... unless they repent, they will doom to eternal consequences (or punishment). It seem to tell us that they (the seven churches.. well.. six churches...) was saved but now are in dangerous of losing it UNLESS they repent. The repentance is 180 degree changing in their lives. It is a huge thing. To be more specifical, the church in Ephesus that Jesus warned... If they dont repent then they will take their lampstand from its place. Sound dangerous, is it?

(maybe we should start new topic discussing about the Seven Churches??)

Again, I know I have not offend you becuase we become family! Meanwhile, I thought I just should present it up as I continue growing in the word of God. GOD BLESS!!

[Mouko OCS]

Well, like you and I talked buddy, this is a good discussion to have...I'll just post my reply from our conversation.

Ok, well, I can understand your concern with that one...a buddy of mine and I had a discussion about this verse dealing with our Church at the time...we talked about how we fealt that if our Church did not get it's seemingly mis-directed focus back on God, that He may "close the doors."

See, we have to look at that verse in light of who it is speaking too...the Church at Ephasus as a whole.  Certainly we, as individual believers, want and need to follow the principle laid out here, but we keep it in context and look at what He's saying to the Church itself.  The "removal" of the lampstand seems here to be referring to the Church, the organized body of believers at that location, and it's functional role...it's "standing" so-to-speak....and God's judgement on the Church there being a removal of it's influence...i.e. shutting it's doors.  Yeah, it is a scary thought that a Church could get to that point, but, when wrong activity is allowed to grow inside a body of believers, it reflects bad on Christ...

it deals with the blessings of God on the Church, or His holding back of blessings...much the same in the life of the believer...in times where we find ourselves not walking close to God, we experience His chastisement...and at times when we are close...His blessings and assurance

Of course, for those who do not know Christ, who are still lost in their sin, repentence here would then refer to repentence to salvation...but that's not the context...

You see, the context here is that the lives of true believers are being described in the preceding verses up to Revelation 2:5...then they are warned that they have "left your first love."  Basically, these people were living the life of the faithful...but had lost their focus on the one true thing that mattered most...their relationship to Jesus Christ Himself...

As for the references to verses cited in the section you quoted...I'm glad you mentioned them as I do want to talk about those in the writing I'm doing.  Like I was telling you, I'm going to quit being lazy and forgetful and make the time to at least somewhat complete what I've been working on.  I'll work on it, Lord willing, tonight, and try to get it to a point to post.  Quickly speaking though, Luke 8:13 refers to those who have an "emotional experience" of faith and not the working of God.  How many people can we all think of off the top of our heads that we have known this to happen too?  They get on the emotional high and then soon we see clearly how there was no true regenerating of the Spirit in that person's heart.  They simply deceived themselves and fell away when push came to shove.  The truth James talked about when a person's true faith, or lack thereof, was shown evident when the action of that faith was not there.  Remember the foundation of "sand" and "rock" in Matthew 7...trials will come and show what the true foundation is...in Luke 8:13, the foundation was not that of Christ.

[The Deacon OCS]

Pure - you must like cooking because you can sure stir the pot (see me winking).

I have a Deacon's meeting to go to and this is my busy season at work, so I will respond in near future.

For now remember when you read the Bible and a passage from it, read it in context. I think that what has happended here is that the Assy. of God may have a contextual issue in their interpretation.

Much is the same for some of the Seven Churches as they had some improper theological beliefs.

Let me study some, find some time and respond.